I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Eggs as part of Vitamin A reduction
Quote from Jessica2 on April 25, 2024, 1:35 pm@Jiri I won't argue anymore, instead I will agree 100% about your saying to move and get off your butt. It's interesting that a lot of physical activity reduces estrogen in in women and causes a hormonal cascade as consequential as eating does, affecting insulin too.
@janelle525 I like the list you posted earlier on best health practices, particularly social media, which I can obsess on (we all know this haha) A fast is probably called for soon. Its been a while! On it you said there was a connection between starch and progesterone? That's interesting. Maybe its why so many carnivores report hair loss? But even men report this, my carnivore friend did too, he's male. What's the connection?
I'm glad you asked! Dr. Katharine Dalton researched PMS and found that many women with it waited too long to eat. Here is one of her research reports:
"Following a large meal there is a transient and large increase in the metabolic clearance rate of progesterone.1 Progesterone receptors do not bind to molecules of progesterone in the presence of adrenalin,2 which is released when the blood glucose level is low. While awaiting their first appointment, 84 women with severe premenstrual syndrome (PMS) completed a questionnaire detailing all food and drink consumed on seven consecutive days. The average daytime interval between starch-containing foods was 7 hours, with an overnight interval averaging 13 ½ hours. This suggested that women with PMS might benefit from shorter food intervals between starch-containing foods and avoidance of large meals. On receipt of their questionnaires women were advised to follow a three-hourly starch diet, which was beneficial in 54 per cent with improvement in a further 20 per cent. The diet alone proved effective in 19 per cent, who needed no additional medication for full relief of premenstrual symptoms."
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/smi.2460080109
And yeah I hear ya on the social media thing, I've reduced my social media use to just this forum and youtube. It has really helped me.
Quote from Sarabeth on April 25, 2024, 11:59 amQuote from tim on April 24, 2024, 7:26 pmWith liver dysfunction it's common for B vitamin pathways to be affected alongside a whole lot of other physiology.
So say an enzyme involved in thiamine metabolism like transketolase is affected. A deficiency could exist despite a normally sufficient intake of thiamin. Mega doses of thiamine may improve thiamine status while it is being taken but the liver dysfunction and the causes of it will not have been addressed.
Often other deficiencies will be present such as riboflavin, magnesium, choline, folate and B12. Why megadose with just one cofactor?
It makes far more sense to take low dose B complex (without pyridoxine and folic acid) for liver support temporarily, especially if one can't eat foods high in B vitamins like legumes. But even that can cause issues for some. I'm growing increasingly skeptical about even that let alone megadoses of one B vitamin.
People often perceive benefits from supplements that are actually harming them. An example is iodine supplementation. Iodine supplementation often causes so much harm but there are thousands that passionately advocate for it.
Well sure, if you get results, and understand what is going on physiologically, then that is great, and more power to you if you can figure out a supplement plan that imitates lower doses you might get from food, includes as many cofactors as necessary, and addresses a specific problem. If a b complex had solved my or my family member's issues that in this case were addressed by B1, that would have been wonderful, and I don't doubt that some adverse consequence(s) may have been sustained by two months of high dose thiamine (for example). But in the case of high dose thiamine (as opposed to many other things I've tried over the years), it worked, where a b complex never did, and the benefits still remain (indicating long term good effects rather than damage) a year and a half later.
It is a major challenge for me to come up with new tweaks that I haven't tried, which is why I am always slightly on the lookout for people's anecdotes, and when I hear something like, "manganese supplementation often dramatically helps ligament laxity and associated symptoms," my ears perk up. Maybe Chris M is right, and its a terrible idea. But so far, many years of nutritious and balanced eating hasn't helped this issue, some of the associated symptoms are increasingly bad (a teenager should not have collagen issues such that severely diminished gums and early tooth loss is at stake, for example), and I'm looking for anyone else with _proactive_ ideas: what did you try that solved the root cause of this, or offered symptomatic relief in the short and long term _even if mechanisms are poorly understood_? I don't want to damage anything with scattershot supps...AND I am not convinced that doing nothing but eating a balanced diet, which we've tried to do now for nearly five years of low- to now-moderate-vitamin A, is enough.
In the case of B12 supplementation with myself, for entirely other reasons, I don't doubt that absorption and/or processing is not going well - it obviously isn't. But after all these years I also have few remaining ideas, even if I identified "reduced intrinsic factor in the gut due to decades of malnourishment as a vegetarian" or "impaired liver function due to excessive vitamin A and terrible horrible CLO" or anything else as a cause. As @Jessica2 noted, sometimes short term relief is necessary, and it's impossible to know exactly whether ones diet is nutritious enough to cause, in time, enough healing to prevent major damage from occurring right now, from still remaining issues. What nutrients are absent or overabundant in our diets? In the end, we can only hope to approximately guess, plus attempt to steer clear of any major irritants that still negatively impact the system _even if ideally they didn't_ and _even if they are great for most others_, like @Puddleduck has written about in her thread concerning eggs etc.
What do folks think about iodized salt if one can't or doesn't eat seafood or dairy?
Has anyone got specific ideas for what a person should do in the short and longterm for gastro issues and weight gain??
What in the world to do for gum problems not having to do with oral hygiene, plus ligament laxity???
What else, besides avoiding excessive plant toxins and vitamin A and attempting sufficiency in good fats, proteins, carbs/fiber/etc. and B vitamins, can help our livers heal, preferably (especially for our children) well in advance of our old age????
These are some relevant questions, in my personal experience and opinion while reading through this thread.
The only thing that comes to mind for ligament laxity is a dr I came across a long time ago who was looking at curing POTS she was greatly debilitated with it and ligament laxity comes along with it. There's a name for it maybe someone remembers it's been so long since I looked into it. I don't have much issue with POTS anymore. I mainly used brain retraining for my situation, but she developed a supplement that was mainly for increasing acetylcholine, so I think it had a bunch of choline in it I wish I remembered! I'm not a huge fan of eggs (I started having panic attacks again when I tried eating eggs for a few months), but betaine helps spare choline and I've had great success using betaine hcl with meat meals, I think if someone is low in minerals they may have very bad stomach acid levels. Bad digestion is also a sign of someone who is functioning in fight or flight a lot too. Beans throughout the day can help mop up stress hormones and also supply minerals and vitamins.
Quote from Jessica2 on April 25, 2024, 2:46 pm@janelle525 the adrenal part is REALLY ineresting to me. I think after 20+ years of daily strong coffee and stress (which I have never seemed to handle well, even small stressors) my adrenals are burned out. I can't stand the taste of coffee anymore. I had it one day this week and I got jitters so bad I was physically shivering. My mouth tasted gross all day. I don't even like tea that much either but the morning drinking habit is ingrained. I hope to get rid of it too soon.
Yeah I am that way too. I had severe burnout after yrs of strong coffee and stress. I have never been the same since, but I think I'm really getting somewhere this yr. I still have bad habits of going too long without eating, but at least it doesn't appear to cause a stress response as it used to and now I'm eating at least 3 meals a day instead of maybe a snack for lunch lol. Habits can be hard to break!
Where did you read about under carboxylated osteocalcin?
@Janelle525 interesting about the POTS connection. I have tried betaine hcl several times, with immediate burning and pain indicating (I hope! Because it sure would be unpleasant to take more) I do not need it. How did you find/determine it was helpful, and do you find food sources work instead?
I understand, it's not easy if you don't know what to do.
If a low dose B complex doesn't help then it's likely that dietary B vitamin deficiencies aren't an issue. That leaves liver dysfunction and autoimmunity as the remaining possibility if any symptoms do relate to B vitamin deficiencies.
So many causes can contribute to liver dysfunction. One important cause is trying things that one thinks might help.
Research is good. Studying physiology is helpful. We don't have to understand chemistry or even biochemistry and genetics to study physiology.
Trying something out when we don't understand well how it will effect our physiology and what the main physiological mechanisms are behind how it may help and which isn't in line with natural law, not so much.
Supplementation of any kind is not in line with natural law because it was never possible for the human animal to obtain such a thing before modern times. That doesn't mean it doesn't align with physiological law such as providing a B vitamin if one is deficient. But if a supplement is needed it means that (a) the diet is deficient and taking a supplement may hinder us from aligning ourselves with a more balanced diet or (b) dysfunction is present in our organs in which case supraphysiological doses of a specific micronutrient can only hope to mask the dysfunction for a period of time. There are no absolutes and so of course there are exceptions to this such as the potential benefits of taking low doses of certain supplements while depleting vitamin A but with any exceptions like this it's important to have a deep understanding of systems physiology.
If you are not sure what to do next it's far better to do things that don't have physiological downsides, only potential upsides. For example researching EMF reduction for your home. It may not be the cause but it has a lot of potential benefits without many downsides.
Another is measuring levels of various gasses in your home such as CO2 and CO. A lot of people don't realize that keeping windows closed with little ventilation can contribute to poor health, especially is gas cooking is used.
Another is researching protozoa and helminths and how they can contribute to chronic health issues. Most do not want to hear this but pets are a major source of parasitic disease, if the pet has a parasite the owner will too very often. Not having pets, practicing strict hygiene around animals, avoidance of biting insects, avoiding all raw food apart from peeled produce, consuming only filtered or boiled water, keeping your children from playing around wetlands, poisoning all ants around the home, there are many aspects to hygiene that people are largely ignorant of and which contribute to a lot of illness. On the flip side some parasites are symbiotic. Hookworm therapy is an example of something that can provide much benefit to autoimmunity with little downside.
There are so many possible causes to research. One method that can help is to compare your family to families that have less health issues and ask yourself what they are doing differently in every aspect of their life.
It sounds like you are including neither seafood nor dairy in the diet. It is a very basic first step towards health to shun all fad dietary ideas and to consume a balanced omnivorous diet containing all food groups. Seafood is one of the most important food groups. Low fat dairy is not high in vitamin A. These foods provide more than just iodine. Iodized salt may be sufficient but it's best to get iodine from regular consumption of seafood, eggs and milk. Kelp should be avoided but all other seaweeds in small amounts are healthy to also include in the diet.
Quote from Sarabeth on April 26, 2024, 5:24 am@Janelle525 interesting about the POTS connection. I have tried betaine hcl several times, with immediate burning and pain indicating (I hope! Because it sure would be unpleasant to take more) I do not need it. How did you find/determine it was helpful, and do you find food sources work instead?
Ok that is probbaly a good sign that you have enough acid, I do remember when I first started taking it I had more burning issues but I had clear signs of not enough, I think I had to get over that first hump of increasing acid because if you increase a little it could cause more burning if the valve is not closing yet, but then when you hit the right amount the valve closes and no more burning and pain (unless the pain is just in the stomach then you do not need more acid).
I owe a lot to this guy I found on youtube who lost his voice for 8 yrs due to bad digestion. He basically is now an expert on indigestion and teaches other people to optimize their digestion. He's called kick your fat in the nuts because he also helps people lose weight with a background in fitness training.
You can get betaine from wheat too.
I remembered the lady, she was called "prettyill" on youtube, Dr Driscol, she developed a clinic for treating people with dysautonomia so she has another channel now too. I have no idea if her methods even work but the ligament laxity reminded me of her. It's called EDS. And it can be a sign of dysautonomia, nervous system problem not necessarily a mineral problem.
Quote from Janelle525 on April 26, 2024, 7:00 amQuote from tim on April 25, 2024, 8:27 pmWhere did you read about under carboxylated osteocalcin?
I believe Chris Masterjohn, he always goes over all that technical stuff that I wouldn't understand otherwise.
Well, I believe he is a smart guy and a passionate searcher.... His mistakes (like believing in the wapf and fermented cod liver oil) parallel mine so there's that... These were very "expensive" mistakes (in terms of human suffering) that I regret deeply.
No one gets everything right though. I like him... I've interacted with him now and then on different forums.
I guess I stopped reading his essays when I starting thinking there was no use to getting down into the molecular level to try to understand things. I'm not saying smart ideas won't come from it. I am probably wrong. I don't get everything right either.
Nothing teaches like making mistakes...
That was a good list you came up with.
With healthy liver function it's possible that as long as choline is sufficient that increasing fructose and fat intake somewhat will not affect liver health that much.
Omega 6 (linoleic acid) probably lowers cholesterol in the same way that reducing fat intake lowers cholesterol, reduction of triglycerol export. Often the liver may metabolize it because it doesn't want to export it in VLDL due to its susceptibility to ROS. So it metabolizes it into ketones. Increased LA intake seems to reduce choline requirements but cause liver injury at the same time. Lard and other fats lower in LA increase choline requirements because they have the right fatty acids to be exported from the liver. In the context of choline deficiency they may cause pathogenesis, in the absence of choline deficiency they may be healthy. So when someone is choline deficient consuming more LA may initially appear to be beneficial even though it fundamentally isn't especially long term.