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Factors influencing likelihood of developing a choline deficiency on a low vA diet
Quote from
sand on February 4, 2023, 11:37 pm
Quote from
Jessica2 on February 4, 2023, 4:08 pm
I wasn't aware you owned this forum and had the power to direct who is here and what they say. Do you have that authority? If not perhaps YOU would be happy elsewhere. I'm happy right here though.
This is getting childish. How is me asking you to get your own egg forum, where you can discuss how you like, saying stuff without having to back up your claims, any different from you asking me to get my own thread, where I can discuss things backed up scientifically? I can play your childish game: you don't like people asking you to back up your claims? TOUGH SHIT!
Please, just entertain the idea that what some of us are asking here is not that stupid, and that we just want to help people heal as well (without any narcissistic desire to become the new GaRrEtT SmiTh, getting off on throwing around advice to everybody on non-scientific basis)
Quote from
Jessica2 on February 4, 2023, 4:08 pm
I wasn't aware you owned this forum and had the power to direct who is here and what they say. Do you have that authority? If not perhaps YOU would be happy elsewhere. I'm happy right here though.
This is getting childish. How is me asking you to get your own egg forum, where you can discuss how you like, saying stuff without having to back up your claims, any different from you asking me to get my own thread, where I can discuss things backed up scientifically? I can play your childish game: you don't like people asking you to back up your claims? TOUGH SHIT!
Please, just entertain the idea that what some of us are asking here is not that stupid, and that we just want to help people heal as well (without any narcissistic desire to become the new GaRrEtT SmiTh, getting off on throwing around advice to everybody on non-scientific basis)
Quote from
Inger on February 5, 2023, 1:59 am
Bart Kay was turned into a newt but muscle meat carnivore cured him...that's a lot more impressive than eggs making you feel better. +1 for carnivore 
What is a newt? Sorry, my native language is not English 🙂
Bart Kay was turned into a newt but muscle meat carnivore cured him...that's a lot more impressive than eggs making you feel better. +1 for carnivore
What is a newt? Sorry, my native language is not English 🙂
Quote from
sand on February 5, 2023, 4:03 am
bro...!
bro...!
Quote from
Tobias on February 5, 2023, 5:24 am
Quote from
Jessica2 on February 5, 2023, 3:55 am
@sand I have two threads posting many studies about choline ("the many benefits of choline" and "bile research"and now I and many others are posting our anecdotes about experimenting with it. I dont have to admit shit to you or say anything about what I or Andrew or anyone else is doing and if you don't like my level of skepticism TAKE A HIKE on over to another thread or you could possibly even not comment. I have no issues if you object to what we say, but you don't have to be rude or nitpick about the way we say or present it. Present your own evidence.
@wavygravygadzooks I appreciate your level of scientific rigor but I am not a scientist. I do believe carnivore can possibly cure some long term health issues though. Again, just because I disagree with your level of committment to the carnivore lifestyle doesn't mean I think you should shut up about it or that I think you should say it with caveats or in a different way. Say it how and where you want here. I am an adult who realizes that I PERSONALLY must read what I see here with a level of skepticism and grains of salt and the realization that what works for someone else many not work for me. That's called being an adult. I don't need anyone to hold my hand and I dont childishly insist someone say what I want to hear in a way I like.
Calm down, the issue with how the arguments are being presented is their frequency, omnipresence and vagueness. Just what exactly is "gut leakiness"? How does eggs "increase detox"? There's not enough data attached to even begin speculating. It's useless spam. There's too much feel and not enough facts. Facts like how choline supplementation does indeed substitute eggs which you can see clearly in table 1, and it does so without close to doubling your plasma zeaxanthin. Choline is well and good, but if you have enough it doesn't do jack, and eating eggs is only going to needlessly introduce carotenoids. How can we tell if people are seeing benefits from eggs due to it's nutrients and not because they're unable to get anything out of storage due to all the incoming VA? I just want to see some efforts made to put these concerns to rest.
Quote from
Jessica2 on February 5, 2023, 3:55 am
@sand I have two threads posting many studies about choline ("the many benefits of choline" and "bile research"and now I and many others are posting our anecdotes about experimenting with it. I dont have to admit shit to you or say anything about what I or Andrew or anyone else is doing and if you don't like my level of skepticism TAKE A HIKE on over to another thread or you could possibly even not comment. I have no issues if you object to what we say, but you don't have to be rude or nitpick about the way we say or present it. Present your own evidence.
@wavygravygadzooks I appreciate your level of scientific rigor but I am not a scientist. I do believe carnivore can possibly cure some long term health issues though. Again, just because I disagree with your level of committment to the carnivore lifestyle doesn't mean I think you should shut up about it or that I think you should say it with caveats or in a different way. Say it how and where you want here. I am an adult who realizes that I PERSONALLY must read what I see here with a level of skepticism and grains of salt and the realization that what works for someone else many not work for me. That's called being an adult. I don't need anyone to hold my hand and I dont childishly insist someone say what I want to hear in a way I like.
Calm down, the issue with how the arguments are being presented is their frequency, omnipresence and vagueness. Just what exactly is "gut leakiness"? How does eggs "increase detox"? There's not enough data attached to even begin speculating. It's useless spam. There's too much feel and not enough facts. Facts like how choline supplementation does indeed substitute eggs which you can see clearly in table 1, and it does so without close to doubling your plasma zeaxanthin. Choline is well and good, but if you have enough it doesn't do jack, and eating eggs is only going to needlessly introduce carotenoids. How can we tell if people are seeing benefits from eggs due to it's nutrients and not because they're unable to get anything out of storage due to all the incoming VA? I just want to see some efforts made to put these concerns to rest.
salt has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Alex on February 5, 2023, 6:09 am
Clearly eggs and choline sups have been very helpful for some but unhelpful to others, they should not be presented as a cure all (as I have sometimes seen on here in the past) but instead as an option to explore.
Clearly eggs and choline sups have been very helpful for some but unhelpful to others, they should not be presented as a cure all (as I have sometimes seen on here in the past) but instead as an option to explore.
Jenny and salt have reacted to this post.
Quote from
Jenny on February 5, 2023, 7:15 am
@alexm I completely agree. If people read my first post when I started this thread that’s exactly what I’m saying. This is not a matter for everyone. But it could be a VERY important matter for some (me). Knowledge is power.
@alexm I completely agree. If people read my first post when I started this thread that’s exactly what I’m saying. This is not a matter for everyone. But it could be a VERY important matter for some (me). Knowledge is power.
salt, Audrey and 2 other users have reacted to this post.
Quote from
Tobias on February 5, 2023, 7:32 am
Quote from
Jessica2 on February 5, 2023, 6:05 am
@tobias You can say whatever you want but you cross a line when you start criticizing how and in what manner someone else is saying it. I don't care how you find the arguments to be honest: their frequency, your perceived level of how vague they are or whatever else. Present your own evidence and leave other people to express how they feel is appropriate. The idea that we aren't presenting evidence is just plain false, and most of the arguments are because you just don't want to eat eggs. FINE. I'm not going to modify what I say for your personal preferences though and no one else should either. You can with respect ask for clarifications, that's reasonable. But to demand we shut up because you don't like how we compose our posts or their frequency is demanding and rude. End of story.
It's not unreasonable at all, especially so when Andrew starts recommending polyphenols, since beetroot contains betaine, and anything that does something relating to choline is benevolent apparently. Reading through the study he posted on it doesn't exactly fill you with confidence that it's not just another organic pesticide, and he must have thought so too judging by the title. I thought that would be that, but then he somehow managed to convince himself that it's not. I'm starting to suspect that he is more concerned with piggybacking on Grant's discovery with choline being his claim to fame than actually helping people. So yes, I do take issue with his arguments. And don't give me that "we're all adults here" crap, the posters may be, but you don't know who's reading.
Quote from
Jessica2 on February 5, 2023, 6:05 am
@tobias You can say whatever you want but you cross a line when you start criticizing how and in what manner someone else is saying it. I don't care how you find the arguments to be honest: their frequency, your perceived level of how vague they are or whatever else. Present your own evidence and leave other people to express how they feel is appropriate. The idea that we aren't presenting evidence is just plain false, and most of the arguments are because you just don't want to eat eggs. FINE. I'm not going to modify what I say for your personal preferences though and no one else should either. You can with respect ask for clarifications, that's reasonable. But to demand we shut up because you don't like how we compose our posts or their frequency is demanding and rude. End of story.
It's not unreasonable at all, especially so when Andrew starts recommending polyphenols, since beetroot contains betaine, and anything that does something relating to choline is benevolent apparently. Reading through the study he posted on it doesn't exactly fill you with confidence that it's not just another organic pesticide, and he must have thought so too judging by the title. I thought that would be that, but then he somehow managed to convince himself that it's not. I'm starting to suspect that he is more concerned with piggybacking on Grant's discovery with choline being his claim to fame than actually helping people. So yes, I do take issue with his arguments. And don't give me that "we're all adults here" crap, the posters may be, but you don't know who's reading.
salt has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Alex on February 5, 2023, 9:01 am
@jessica2 I don’t wish to argue with you, you were not the person who were presenting them as a cure all so my comment wasn’t aimed at you. Let’s just drop all this hostility towards each other from past disagreements, life’s too short to argue (especially when it’s on internet forums lol).
@jessica2 I don’t wish to argue with you, you were not the person who were presenting them as a cure all so my comment wasn’t aimed at you. Let’s just drop all this hostility towards each other from past disagreements, life’s too short to argue (especially when it’s on internet forums lol).
Quote from
Jenny on February 5, 2023, 10:40 am
@jessica2 no worries. I always appreciate your input.
@jessica2 no worries. I always appreciate your input.
Audrey, Navn and Deleted user have reacted to this post.
Quote from
ggenereux on February 5, 2023, 10:44 am
Hi everyone,
Just a reminder to please always keep comments here respectful of others and their views. Everyone here wants to get to an understanding on how to best recover their health. We are all different and have different backgrounds and therefore perspectives on how to best get there. With time, we’ll find out what works and what doesn’t. So, let’s please be careful and not jump to conclusions.
Hi everyone,
Just a reminder to please always keep comments here respectful of others and their views. Everyone here wants to get to an understanding on how to best recover their health. We are all different and have different backgrounds and therefore perspectives on how to best get there. With time, we’ll find out what works and what doesn’t. So, let’s please be careful and not jump to conclusions.
Jenny, puddleduck and 9 other users have reacted to this post.
JennypuddleduckAudreyNavnHermesAlastairArminJavierDeleted userIngerDonald
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