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Finally.. Not seb derm but Psoriasis ! My Journey
@sand Egg yolks have about 250IUs of vitamin A and a similar 250 mcgs of lutein. Beef liver has about 50 times more vitamin A. People eat 1-2 tablespoons of butter a day during detox and that is much higher than 2 eggs for vitamin A.
My progress reports explain what happened to me. I had bleeding capillaries. Skin peeling for 6 months in recovery. I've healed so many things the last 3 years that I've never done in 20 years eating and living healthy. The Doctor did a lot of tests but it was 4 years before I finally found vit A reduction and the only thing I hadnt tried.
The notion that the eggs with vit A have slowed my detox is not compatible with my continuing symptoms which respond to increased zinc, fibre, fat and protein. I am slim so my problem is eczema. It's finally healing with the high egg routine.
You heal fatty liver with choline (and betaine synergistically). Choline in eggs particularly (there are other high sources) is much more powerful than the small amount of vitamin A in eggs. At most I'm doing 1,500 IUs. One 1962 study with liver work shows a 62 year old man recovering on 4,000 IUs of Vitamin A so choline repletion may be key to his recovery also.
Encouraging too fast a detox with very low vitamin A rebounds on a lot of people. Too much leakiness in the system. Using up methylation factors in the detox. Fixing the low choline and phospholipids should be the priority. You can explain why @ggenereux2014 succeeded as he got enough from choline from beef, bison and beans. Others may not be so fortunate. And I could suggest more choline might have helped him in that difficult first year. Eggs have helped other people with the detox setback. I have shown it's possible to get healthier eating regularly and even better for my healing and choline replenishment at 4 eggs a day. Long term 40 year gluten problem (now resolved) may be a factor in my low choline. I had no such difficulties on the detox eating 1-2 eggs a day to improve absorption, reduce leakiness and improve bile flow. Too many beans actually caused me problems which led to further investigation. Over 50 scientific studies support choline for liver health, bile salt protection and intestinal mucosal support.
@andrew-b Are you sure its the choline in the eggs that is healing your skin issues, as I've had the same experience before in the past with skin healing from Grass fed yogurt, beef tallow which both contain Vit A and other things, yet other rich choline sources like Organic meat, choline rich beans in large quantities do not heal my skin issues.
@alexm To be clear, the eggs are helping my digestive system, parasympathetic activity, brain function, calmness and probably reducing leakiness in the biliary system and that in turn is helping my skin. @jessica2 also reported eggs helping her skin. A phospholipid sphingomyelin is very high in eggs and that may be helping also. I'm also getting betaine (which saves some choline being converted) from spelt, quinoa and beetroot and that could be helpful in conjunction with the eggs. So it's a combination of foods. So you are right I can't be 100% sure it's the choline hence I tend to suggest food rather than choline supplements although when I eat meals with beef only I sense more detox and leakiness and with egg meals it's much better. Choline would tend to fit the pattern for all the things being healed. The eczema is only there because of the leakiness
Beef tallow is very good for choline also. The yogurt could help gut health so there's a number of possible mechanisms to help skin. I ate lots of beef and got very gradual improvements over the years on vit A reduction so skin effect is more subtle. I wouldnt say beans are that high in choline compared to eggs, fish eggs, beef hearts and goose fat and I did eat lots of beans at one point.
@andrew-b Nobody is arguing that eggs is the same as beef liver. I'm not touching butter, and I don't worry about what other people that are less strict are doing. I have serious eye issues, so for me eating anything with lutein is crazy. I cringe when I see that people with serious MGD-issues are adviced to eat eggs. I mean no offence, I just think that your advice, based on your personal experience, might not be applicable to everybody. For me, this is a fight against time, and I think that is the case for a lot of people. You are so sure in your case that eggs is the way to go, and you tout this to everybody with such certainty, but I see nothing but anecdotal evidence and some study from 1962. I'm very open to the possibility that you are right, but eating 30% of the RDA of VA, plus getting a bunch of lutein, is, at least to my own case, just madness.
@sand I'm well aware of the lutein issue as @jaj has it and we talk regularly about that and other Vitamin A reduction issues. I have numerous people following my advice and getting better. Definitely there will be people with sulfur issues, egg intolerances and some very reactive to lutein. I'm well aware what I'm doing is not applicable to everybody. On the other hand it may help a lot of people. It's a much better approach than restrictive diets when unnecessary. Grant Genereux is anecdotal evidence. The more people that follow his approach and succeed will build the science. However, he doesnt recommend it to everyone and is seeking better ways. I believe choline and betaine are an important part of a better way. Not all people have to eat 4 eggs. Some are succeeding on 1,2 or 3. Other foods being necessary when eggs arent an option. There's at least 50 studies supporting my case that choline and betaine are powerful helpers of liver health. I've posted many in this forum. Eggs are part of a balanced varied diet so it's not about only eggs.
Another point to consider is the high cholesterol content of eggs. Two nutritional websites state that one large egg (50g) contains anywhere from 62% to 71% of the recommended daily value of cholesterol.
@andrew-b Yeah that's great you're able to get all the nutrients you require from food, although for me and I think some others too using only food to obtain certain nutrients is not reliable and also not as effective as taking it as a stand alone supplement.
Annoyingly I still can't do eggs they trigger bad gallbladder pain but they are ranked the top food for triggering gallbladder attacks, I wonder why this is, is it the high cholesterol content or is it the combination of egg protein, fat with carotenoids and sulphur.
"Eggs, pork, greasy food, onions, fowl, pasteurized milk, ice cream, coffee, chocolate, citrus fruits, corn, beans, and nuts—in that order—are known to bring on gallbladder attacks in patients suffering from gallbladder disease. In a 1968 research study, an entire group of patients with gallbladder disease was free of symptoms while on a diet that excluded all these foods. Adding eggs to their diet brought on gallbladder attacks in 93 percent of the patients. Egg protein, in particular, can have a gallstone attack-producing effect."
The tallow and yogurt were also very high in Conjugated linoleic acids which i think could also be partly why they helped my skin and have a very low favourable Omega 6 to 3 ratio.
What about beef, well the organic waitrose beef mince I have is only from the supermarket and advertised as fed on grass and forage but I don't think its 100% grass fed, so I don't think I've tried 100% grass fed beef before but I do a lot better on the paler red meat than the darker red meat and I think this is due to the heme iron content being lower in paler red meat. And the 100% grass fed beef I've seen seems to be a very dark red which would be bad for me.
Quote from Andrew B on December 3, 2022, 6:54 am@sand I'm well aware of the lutein issue as @jaj has it and we talk regularly about that and other Vitamin A reduction issues. I have numerous people following my advice and getting better. Definitely there will be people with sulfur issues, egg intolerances and some very reactive to lutein. I'm well aware what I'm doing is not applicable to everybody. On the other hand it may help a lot of people. It's a much better approach than restrictive diets when unnecessary. Grant Genereux is anecdotal evidence. The more people that follow his approach and succeed will build the science. However, he doesnt recommend it to everyone and is seeking better ways. I believe choline and betaine are an important part of a better way. Not all people have to eat 4 eggs. Some are succeeding on 1,2 or 3. Other foods being necessary when eggs arent an option. There's at least 50 studies supporting my case that choline and betaine are powerful helpers of liver health. I've posted many in this forum. Eggs are part of a balanced varied diet so it's not about only eggs.
I am not arguing that choline is not good for you, I'm just saying that eggs is not for everybody in this place, and that it might come with a cost, that you, as far as I've seen, are not regularly mentioning when recommending eggs. I also agree eggs are part of a balanced diet, but for those that want to get rid of excess VA in the liver, maybe carnivore is the best option, which is the opposite of a "balanced" diet - who knows!
I am just coming from a place where being strict is very important. For me, this is what works. So, I'm only saying that we should be careful with our recommendations, like Grant is careful with his rec0mmendations
Quote from AlexM on December 3, 2022, 8:32 am@andrew-b Yeah that's great you're able to get all the nutrients you require from food, although for me and I think some others too using only food to obtain certain nutrients is not reliable and also not as effective as taking it as a stand alone supplement.
Annoyingly I still can't do eggs they trigger bad gallbladder pain but they are ranked the top food for triggering gallbladder attacks, I wonder why this is, is it the high cholesterol content or is it the combination of egg protein, fat with carotenoids and sulphur.
"Eggs, pork, greasy food, onions, fowl, pasteurized milk, ice cream, coffee, chocolate, citrus fruits, corn, beans, and nuts—in that order—are known to bring on gallbladder attacks in patients suffering from gallbladder disease. In a 1968 research study, an entire group of patients with gallbladder disease was free of symptoms while on a diet that excluded all these foods. Adding eggs to their diet brought on gallbladder attacks in 93 percent of the patients. Egg protein, in particular, can have a gallstone attack-producing effect."
The tallow and yogurt were also very high in Conjugated linoleic acids which i think could also be partly why they helped my skin and have a very low favourable Omega 6 to 3 ratio.
What about beef, well the organic waitrose beef mince I have is only from the supermarket and advertised as fed on grass and forage but I don't think its 100% grass fed, so I don't think I've tried 100% grass fed beef before but I do a lot better on the paler red meat than the darker red meat and I think this is due to the heme iron content being lower in paler red meat. And the 100% grass fed beef I've seen seems to be a very dark red which would be bad for me.