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Gari / Bigpoppa
It beats me why people include any kind of high fat dairy when they are trying to lower VA. It's one of the main culprits...
I personally eat any part of the chicken including the skin that comes with the meat, I often discard a portion of the skin though. Fish is no big deal either.
There is one species that is very high in VA though, for some reason eel is very high in VA. I used to trap freshwater eel. That won't be happening anymore.
Thanks for the info and clarifying the protocol.
I believe all of us are in an experimental phase
I do cook in ghee , use butter ( moderate amounts ) and I have my reasons. I did not want to deviate too much from my traditional ways of cooking ( I am from Pakistan ) andwanted to follow a diet ( way of eating sounds better) that I can do for life , not an year or two . I don't know if this is the right way for everyone but it is working for me and my family hopefully
Some other changes I made was to lower red chilies considerably ( did not eliminate ) ,I use some yoghurt too. I did cut out tomatoes / cheese , eggs from my home cooking but eat them on occasions , for example if we are eating out or they are included in some food ( A piece of cake may have egg in it )
Never drank alcohol and have never eaten pork .
lentils ( soluble fibre ) are a staple food for us cooked everyday with rotis ( traditional bread ) I was also on zinc , magnesium selenium when I took the A supplements ( client with Dr Smith since 2014 ) Zinc was and is very helpful for me , ( I believe my main problem was not eating enough protein / zinc .) I never took liver supplements or zeolite .
I am happy with the results I am getting for myself and my family . Our strongest detox reaction were in the first 3 months of leaving A supplements . It felt as if my body was ready to dump the excess out with full force , surprisingly I also felt better immediately ( about a week ) leaving the supplements .My sleep got better , could feel a definite change in thinking , it got so clear and no more fuzzy, very similar to what Grant mentions in his first book .
Some of the positive results are
Sun tolerance way better , it’s 90F / 38 C here and I can easily spend half hour outside on a shaded balcony in bright sunshine
Sleep deep and restful
Completed 30 days of 15 hour fast with very less fatigue recently .
I log in 9000 to 10000 steps everyday
Hair softer , growing faster but still experiencing hair fall ( main concern now )
Continued fat loss clothes fit looser , lost 7 kg ( I had gained an unexplained amount of fat while on A supplements , was always slim before taking them )
Nails growing fast
Skin softer and smoother
Muscle tightness and spasticity going down rapidly , ligaments / muscles getting stronger I can feel it in my walk
Jaw has almost completely aligned now which is incredible! I wore a mouth guard for 6 months, couldn't stand it gave me No results
I have noticed there is immediate relief on using magnesium lotion on muscles now
My hair calcium was always higher than 250 , even on my first hair test ( I had taken fish oil and calcium vitamin D supplements ) ,when I took the A supplements it went higher to 400 ,after six months leaving them my hair calcium came down to a 27 !
I am a 54 years old female so these positive changes really make me very happy , very thankful to God , and a big thanks to Grant ,Dr Smith and Matt Stone as well
No , I stopped in 2014
my hair cobalt was very high too with the high calcium , it came down as well
I think in many parts of India and Pakistan people tend towards deficiency rather than toxicity of VA so I think the small amount of ghee they include in the diet is probably very helpful. This probably explains the reverence for it. It's the only non carotenoid source for millions.
Or do you think people on traditional pakistani diets often get more va than desirable?
When someone has high va stores ghee and butter should be strictly avoided as they are easily replaceable and are the highest food sources of retinol after liver. They will greatly slow down or even stop VA depletion without providing any nutritional benefit, especially if one is relying on them as their primary fat. However, once VA has been depleted I think it is fine to get VA from frugal consumption of ghee/butter rather than just carotenoids, I'm not fundamentally opposed to butter. If you arent that va toxic it might not be an issue for you but for those of us that really over did it, depleting va is taking years even without any dairy.
When I was planning the diet I would follow , I closely looked at the traditional Pakistani foods
red chilies/ green chilies , tomatoes ( around two to three in a meal ) and yoghurt are the top three that came in my mind which are used daily . My mother used to tell me that now Pakistani recipes have way too much chilies and tomatoes , was not the case when we were young .
They use cooking oils now which have their own issues ( canola , corn oil ) I had a choice between ghee or rice bran oil though , chose ghee .
I also noticed that we definitely lag behind animal protein , don't eat .8 gm per kg of body weight . Some of my relatives and myself tested zinc deficient , I believe lack of zinc and daily protein ( very important for detox as well ) are definitely playing a role in the health problems we are facing in my country
I wonder People in Pakistan ( maybe India too ) the ones who do not have resources eat diets that have ample spices ( specially red chilies ) though it is mostly rice, roti , lentils They cannot afford to eat meat daily . They are usually not totally vaccinated , no sunscreens , move in direct sunlight and live in unhygienic conditions but They are quite energetic , work all day , quite slim , lots of children ( fertility sign of health )
What could be the reason of retinol not affecting them so adversely though their food is rich in spices, tomatoes , yoghurt and they don't use high quality oils etc could it be more of a zinc problem ?
if you look at zinc deficiency symptoms they look quite similar to A toxicity ones
Personally I don't think anyone can be A deficient , it is abundant in most of the food around us .
1 teaspoon of grinded red chilies have 3000 IU of A ! And most are definetely not using just one teaspoon ! This is just one high A food used daily ,add up the others mentioned above .
There is not one documented case of Hypervitaminosis A from carotenoid consumption. You can drink gallons of carrot juice each day and you may not even get it. Quite a few people can't even convert any beta carotene into Vitamin A. Carotenoids and their breakdown products are toxic in themselves though, large scale trials show increased mortality from cancer and heart disease from carotenoid supplementation.
Spices, chilies and tomatoes aren't even that high in provitamin A carotenoids so they'll never cause toxicity. I'm not saying that other carotenoids and other nightshade chemicals they contain don't present an issue though.
Yoghurt consumption cannot cause VA toxicity in normal amounts. Best to limit its consumption during detox though, we don't want to slow down the detox but it definitely won't cause VA toxicity.
You are correct, people in non industrialized nations tend to not get much meat and tend to crave it. Meat is our source of zinc, protein, b12, choline, taurine, other b vitamins, iron, k2, gelatin, bioavailable minerals.
VA toxicity symptoms largely overlap with other nutrient deficiency symptoms because VA induces deficiencies and also inhibits key enzymes associated with other nutrients.
Poorer indians and pakistanis have less contact with modern medicine, more sunlight, more exercise, more fresh air (lower CO2 levels in air), less EMF (many aren't even power grid connected), lower VA, more traditionally prepared and locally grown food, lower iron, hookworm and other parasitic infections that regulate the immune system and lower va and iron, more earth grounding and barefoot walking, very strong family and community bonds which reduces stress, strong religious faith which reduces stress, they don't have the modern corporate job slavery and bill paying stresses, the men are often out doing physical work and the women are child raising instead of both working in psychologically and physically toxic office environments. I could go on.
Totally disagree with you on the carotenoids - personal experience & logic.
It’s all one & the same thing. All vitamin A comes originally from carotenoids. Carotenoids can be absorbed less well but once they are absorbed they become a problem if in excess. Excess is the issue. If you are a poor converter there is no way to get rid of them (maybe sweat) so they hang around & i think from memory can get turned into retinyl esters. The body has no way to get rid of excess carotenoids other than put them through the vA metabolism pathway which adds to the body burden. There is no way carotenoids in excess aren’t a problem to those suffering with vA excess.
Apologies if I’ve mis understood what you meant Tim as my brain is foggy today.
You are so right about strong family bonds and strong religious faith which reduces stress ( we are very family oriented and religiously conscious as well )it plays a big role .
The other factors you mentioned are so important too .
How would you explain the definite positive changes I have experienced on a lowish A diet , despite using ghee and butter ( very moderate amounts )
my retinol levels were in the duration of 16 months 54 , 72 and 52 ug /DL or 1.84 µmol/L ( last one was in November ) since then I have made more progress ,will get tested at 2 year mark in August
One major factor I believe which would greatly help after depleting excess A is moderation and eating seasonally . For example mango a high A fruit is available only in summer for 4 months in Pakistan .
Red chillies induce the worst reaction in me now if I even take a bite of spicy food !!! I can tolerate dairy though never drank milk , add it only in my tea