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Histamine liberators might be the biggest problem!
OK, here is my quick story from this week. I avoided histamine liberators and felt less itchy and slept more soundly. Then, yesterday we had over-night guests and pulled out the stops making special foods and drinks and I put aside the histamine ideas.
I was deluged with histamine problems.
It almost made me think that maybe it isn't smart to not be "releasing histamines"? What happens if you don't "release" them? Do they just store up? Because I was MORE itchy than ever, and and MORE sleepless.
It scares me that we can make up such powerful diet ideas... Maybe these are things we shouldn't know.
I think it is interesting that I have a real yen for histamine releasing foods. They are all my fave foods. Maybe I need them?
Quote from lil chick on May 29, 2022, 11:01 amOK, here is my quick story from this week. I avoided histamine liberators and felt less itchy and slept more soundly. Then, yesterday we had over-night guests and pulled out the stops making special foods and drinks and I put aside the histamine ideas.
I was deluged with histamine problems.
It almost made me think that maybe it isn't smart to not be "releasing histamines"? What happens if you don't "release" them? Do they just store up? Because I was MORE itchy than ever, and and MORE sleepless.
It scares me that we can make up such powerful diet ideas... Maybe these are things we shouldn't know.
I think it is interesting that I have a real yen for histamine releasing foods. They are all my fave foods. Maybe I need them?
Yeah this is always my concern with cutting out foods. What happens if you become more sensitive? Though honestly this never really happened to me whenever I've tried eliminating foods. I've done gluten free for almost a yr and didn't notice anything when I started eating it again. Same with dairy. I'm sure I've went a while not eating other foods and again didn't notice much when eating it again. But maybe when we decrease ALL of the histamine liberators then when we eat a bunch of them it could be chaos. So it' not really getting at why its such a big problem to begin with. Which I think is a backed up liver and overall in a stressed metabolism.
"the presence of alcohol will enhance the toxic effect of histamine [11,36,37]. In fact, alcohol and its metabolite, acetaldehyde, compete with histamine for the enzyme responsible for their metabolization (aldehyde dehydrogenase), thus, resulting in the accumulation of this amine in the organism "
Oh, I see how this is related to vitamin A toxicity now. Alcohol, VA, and histamine are all on the same detox pathway.
Quote from Janelle525 on May 29, 2022, 11:11 amQuote from lil chick on May 29, 2022, 11:01 am...I was deluged with histamine problems....It almost made me think that maybe it isn't smart to not be "releasing histamines"? What happens if you don't "release" them? Do they just store up? ...It scares me that we can make up such powerful diet ideas... I think it is interesting that I have a real yen for histamine releasing foods.
Yeah this is always my concern with cutting out foods. What happens if you become more sensitive? Though honestly this never really happened to me whenever I've tried eliminating foods. I've done gluten free for almost a yr and didn't notice anything when I started eating it again. Same with dairy. I'm sure I've went a while not eating other foods and again didn't notice much when eating it again. But maybe when we decrease ALL of the histamine liberators then when we eat a bunch of them it could be chaos. So it' not really getting at why its such a big problem to begin with. Which I think is a backed up liver and overall in a stressed metabolism.
@janelle525, I never had any reaction when I went off gluten or dairy and then went back on again. And it was 2 years for me.
@lil-chick So you slept better and you were less itchy and you only avoided histamine liberators for a week. I think these are great results. I dont know why you would want to eat histamine liberators again if you made that much progress in only a week? It is working for you.
Avoiding histamine liberators is much less restrictive than most diets. You can eat pretty much all starches, sugars, oils and all muscle meat. You can also eat quite a lot of fruits and a lot of veggies. You will never lack any nutrients.
Avoid dairy, eggs, organs and some weird fruits and veggies that our european ancestors have never seen in their lives anyways (like bananas, avocados, pineapple etc.).
I agree that a healthy person should be able to deal with histamine liberators, but if you got damaged (in my case it was accutane), you got to do what you got to do. This band-aid-approach at least doesnt rely on more medications.
I don't know if this was a self fulfilling prophecy or what but I decided to have lemonade after not having any citrus for a long time (I used to do a lot of orange juice and absolutely was suffering histamine intolerance) and I had a panic attack that lasted for hours. I also tried using a quarter tsp of psyllium husk for the first time, that's when the symptoms came on the strongest. Itchy mouth, feeling flushed then the adrenaline and feeling like I was going crazy. My body has always been able to produce massive amounts of adrenaline, no epi pen needed! I think there may be something to the liberator idea. Following a Ray Peat diet for a few years proved disasterous for my histamine, felt anxiety after eating for yrs. It's a very high histamine liberator diet. Loads of orange juice, chocolate, liver, eggs, dairy.
I do think the liver is involved in histamine intolerance. Toxic bile. Recirculating hormones, not able to clear them efficiently.
I know I keep repeating myself but I think it is important to stress this point:
You might not have any problems with histamines but only with histamine liberators.
Can you eat beef or even ground beef? Almost all beef is aged for 2-4 weeks and has tons of histamine. But pretty much everyone here tolerates it.
Can you eat fish? I sometimes eat canned sardines, they are loaded with histamine but I have no problem with them because they are not histamine liberators.
Same with Sauerkraut.
In a way it is kind of unfortunate that the scientists called it "histamine liberator". Because everyone now thinks histamine is the problem, but for most it isnt. They should have called it "autoimmune trigger", because this is what they do for many people 😀
How come all "classic" autoimmune trigger foods are histamine liberators?
Everybody reading this please give this a try and report back. For example an user here reported he gets ulcerative colitis from just eating one can of kidney beans (histamine liberator). I know somebody that gets ulcerativ colitis from a couple glasses of milk. I developed a severe itchy rash from 1 liter of raw milk, that I drank over the course of 4 days. Tons of people on the carnivore diet only get better after they cut dairy and eggs, which are both histamine liberators. I have so many anecdotal evidence for my theory it is insane.
To me, it seems that problems with histamine liberators might be the same log jam as VA: not enough alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme. So dropping VA is almost the same thing as dropping histamine liberators. It's, as my naturopath used to say: another way to get to Boston. If you don't eat too much VA you will handle histamine better. If you don't drink alcohol and avoid aldehydes you will handle VA and histamine better. If you don't each too may histamine liberators, you will handle VA better. See what I'm saying?
But how do we create more alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme in the first place?
Does the B1 therapy that some are doing help with that? What does help with that?
I feel the itchiness all around the upper torso. I wonder if that is where I'm still trying to get rid of VA.
OR I wonder if something about my clothing I'm allergic to. Perhaps detergent re-activated with sweat?
Perhaps my reaction to something in the clothing is *truly allergic*, causing histamine.
We're also inundated with flowers right now, however, my hay-fever reaction hasn't been nearly as bad as this itch. Maybe the torso reaction puts me over the top of what my body can handle. Overflows my ability to detox.
Yes I can eat ground beef, but beef jerky is an issue. My list probably looks a little different than that list. And everyone has their own food allergy list so we still have to figure out what is causing the issue. I see histamine intolerance like a bucket, you can tolerate so much until the bucket spills over and then even the smallest amount can trigger the reaction. My bucket was overfilling lately. High pollen counts, just got guinea pigs who eat timothy hay and I have a known allergy to grass, and then consuming citrus. Bucket overflowed. As far as being able to eat aged meat, sardines, and things like that, that's pretty incredible if you do have issues with histamine. I wouldn't be able to consume very many sardines before noticing an issue. In fact I remember an event I had with canned sardines when I was about halfway thru my second pregnancy I had a can of them and then felt sick to my stomach, anxious and had fish burps for hours. It may just be how good your digestion is as well. I am definitely going to avoid the strong liberators. I do not react to things like ice cream.