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Histamine liberators might be the biggest problem!
I thought about it all night and have decided that I'm probably not allergic to something in my clothing.
I really think this has to do with toxins coming out in my sweat, and only in these specific areas. Perhaps un-detoxed histamines or VA's or who knows what.
I'm also loosing weight, as I tend to do in spring. So, perhaps fat cells are being opened up and toxins released.
Quote from Max on April 13, 2022, 12:45 pmAfter experimenting with all kinds of diets for years, I think I have finally found what really is the problem with so called "trigger foods".
At least in my case, it is not the Vitamin A content of the food, it is not certain anti-nutrients like oxalates, it is not the histamine content of the food, but IT IS whether the food is a histamine liberator or not.
Look at this list and study it carefully: https://www.mastzellaktivierung.info/downloads/foodlist/21_FoodList_EN_alphabetic_withCateg.pdf
Foods that are marked with an L are histamine liberators.
Among them are (Notice how most of the following foods are classical eczema/Autoimmune trigger foods!):
- Organ meats (but not muscle meat!)
- Eggs
- Avocados
- Bananas
- certain nuts
- tomato
- citrus fruits
- most beans
- procesed foods with E-Numbers/ synthetic food additives
- dairy (notice on the list I posted most dairy food items have a "?" so dairy is probably also a histamine liberator)
Without any exception my skin and sleep slowly get worse when I consume foods that are histamine liberators. However with foods that are high in histamine but not liberators I have no problem.
After avoiding histamine liberators I sleep good almost every night, I am almost never itchy and sebderm is 90% healed. And I only found out about this around 2 months ago.
Anyone with skin problems or autoimmune problems should give this a try. You have nothing to lose. I highly doubt that I am the only one having problems with histamine liberators.
I hope this info will help you, for me it changed everything!
Hey Max, we have exchanged a bit last year or so about the seb derm. I too have it, and have tried countless things (and weird diet) to get rid of it.
So far it seems that a lower carb helps (beef + around 100-150g of carbs from pears, papaya, white melon and little bit if honey) but do not get rid of it. And the higher fat content needed to compensate for the kcal increase my upper right quadrant tenderness so not very good...
So i tried to reduced the fat and increased the carbs with a bigger amount of honey as I have read that it can be easier to tolerate for certain SD people, but it seems to slowly worsen again. I guess I will see..
Im curious about what food did you eat and for how long to realize that the histamin liberator food were your culprit?
If I remember correclty, you have tried things like beef + rice and it did nothing. But these 2 food are not histamine liberator as far as I am aware?
I have recently switched to histamin liberator free fruits (white peach, white nectarines, white melon, prunes) with beef, honey and a little bit of ghee while increasing the carbs (got rid of the avocado, the eggs and the histamine liberator fruits) Skin seems to slowly worsen, that is why I wondered about the carb content affecting me.
Glad that you found something that works for you !
@mat Melons and papayas and prunes are histamine liberators for many people. Google it. Maybe that is why your skin gets worse again. I definetely react to these foods! Especially papaya.
I didnt heal on beef+rice because I dont do well with starches. I tried all starches and I do bad with them as staple foods. I could probably eat them once every 3-4 days but if I eat starches daily I definetely get worse in terms of skin, sleep, itchiness. Also I think you can absolutely overdo the beef. I am not a fan of eating pounds of red meat every day. When you are done growing 300 grams of meat a day is easily enough in my opinion. Also I would sometimes eat fish instead of beef.
As my fruit staples I use: Apples, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cucumber, sometimes grapes, dragonfruits and persimmons. I always make a juice or smoothie with them and add lots of raw honey + water. Then I sip it through a straw to protect my teeth from the fruit acids. Sadly I have to do it this way because I dont tolerate any other carb sources.
I do 2 smoothies or juices like that for the first two meals and then in the evening I have my protein and fat.
I tried every diet there is. I also logged my symptoms for years and at some point I connected the dots and I saw that histamine liberators are the biggest problem. Not only for me, but for many many people. Kind of insane that no one talks about it. But I think that all the typical autoimmune trigger foods are histamine liberatos. How on earth is nobody talking about this?
But as I said before. I think you react to the melons and prunes.
Quote from Max on August 15, 2022, 12:44 pm@mat Melons and papayas and prunes are histamine liberators for many people. Google it. Maybe that is why your skin gets worse again. I definetely react to these foods! Especially papaya.
I didnt heal on beef+rice because I dont do well with starches. I tried all starches and I do bad with them as staple foods. I could probably eat them once every 3-4 days but if I eat starches daily I definetely get worse in terms of skin, sleep, itchiness. Also I think you can absolutely overdo the beef. I am not a fan of eating pounds of red meat every day. When you are done growing 300 grams of meat a day is easily enough in my opinion. Also I would sometimes eat fish instead of beef.
As my fruit staples I use: Apples, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cucumber, sometimes grapes, dragonfruits and persimmons. I always make a juice or smoothie with them and add lots of raw honey + water. Then I sip it through a straw to protect my teeth from the fruit acids. Sadly I have to do it this way because I dont tolerate any other carb sources.
I do 2 smoothies or juices like that for the first two meals and then in the evening I have my protein and fat.
I tried every diet there is. I also logged my symptoms for years and at some point I connected the dots and I saw that histamine liberators are the biggest problem. Not only for me, but for many many people. Kind of insane that no one talks about it. But I think that all the typical autoimmune trigger foods are histamine liberatos. How on earth is nobody talking about this?
But as I said before. I think you react to the melons and prunes.
What do you use to make your meats palatable? Do you just use salt? I am trialing no nightshades and just avoiding the histamine liberators in general but it makes meals really boring! (like Grant's prison food!)
I use just salt most of time. But I also have some non-starchy vegetables with my meat to soak up all the olive oil that I need to eat to meet my caloric needs. When you switch things up every now and then it doesnt get boring.
Use different veggies. I use peas, white cabbage, chinese cabbage and rotate them every few days.
Use different meats. I eat beef, chicken, sardines and rotate them every few days. You could also use different cuts of meat, for example sometimes ground beef, sometimes rib eye etc.
Ok, that sounds good, thanks!
Quote from Max on August 15, 2022, 12:44 pm@mat Melons and papayas and prunes are histamine liberators for many people. Google it. Maybe that is why your skin gets worse again. I definetely react to these foods! Especially papaya.
I didnt heal on beef+rice because I dont do well with starches. I tried all starches and I do bad with them as staple foods. I could probably eat them once every 3-4 days but if I eat starches daily I definetely get worse in terms of skin, sleep, itchiness. Also I think you can absolutely overdo the beef. I am not a fan of eating pounds of red meat every day. When you are done growing 300 grams of meat a day is easily enough in my opinion. Also I would sometimes eat fish instead of beef.
As my fruit staples I use: Apples, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cucumber, sometimes grapes, dragonfruits and persimmons. I always make a juice or smoothie with them and add lots of raw honey + water. Then I sip it through a straw to protect my teeth from the fruit acids. Sadly I have to do it this way because I dont tolerate any other carb sources.
I do 2 smoothies or juices like that for the first two meals and then in the evening I have my protein and fat.
I tried every diet there is. I also logged my symptoms for years and at some point I connected the dots and I saw that histamine liberators are the biggest problem. Not only for me, but for many many people. Kind of insane that no one talks about it. But I think that all the typical autoimmune trigger foods are histamine liberatos. How on earth is nobody talking about this?
But as I said before. I think you react to the melons and prunes.
Thanks for the reply. I did logged my symptoms and food diary for years as well (I might have 5 years worth of excel lol) and indeed, while I worked my way through this diet hell I noticed that since going the way I'm going now, I have much less beard/scalp itching after meals than before. I did recently noticed that prunes gave me that itching, tho in a less intense way than some foods. I will cut them out, but I think that white melon - Galia in French - (not orange somehow) dont give me that itching. I will watch that !
So I'm basically down to peaches/nectarines, honey, white galia melon for my carbs and then beef/trout mostly for protein. Then ghee mostly and sometime olive oil as I don't use much added fat.
Thanks for the fruit list. I think that somehow I don't do well with apple (but better with pears, which can be histamin liberator for some I think) but I will try them in a couple of weeks.
I was gonna ask about vegetables - do you only eat these 3 ? (white cabbage, chinese cabbage and peas) - I thought that peas were histamin liberator food btw, less so than split peas (legumes) but still ?
I will play around that timeframe and report in a couple of weeks. Thanks Max !
Thank you for telling me about peas being a potential histamine liberator. I tried them only recently and so far I think I tolerate them fine, but maybe it is because I dont eat large amounts of them. Only a hand full.
I dont eat much vegetables, it is only a small portion. But yes, I eat mainly these three right now, but I am still experimenting. You could probably also skip the veggies all together. I currently dont do that because I think they do a good job in soaking up some of the olive oil I always have with my meat meal.
I always peel the apples, have you tried that? They are always pesticides on the skin, regardless whether the apple is organic or not. Also if you juice them or make a smoothie with them (always add honey + water for more calories) you might tolerate them better as well. Apples are 100% a safe fruit for me, that I know for certain.
@max-3 Yes I might be more restrictive for now until I clear the pso/seb derm and then it will be easier to see how things affect me. How long did it took for you to have your 90% clearance with that low histamin liberator diet, and what food did you eat while you were working your way towards it ?
I have done some IgG panel (not sure I completely trust it) but apple and banana came back high, and both seems to flare me up (banana especially, but it's a strong histamine liberator). I will have to find other safe fruit than peach/nectarines anyway since they are in season up until september. So I might try peeled apple again and see, would be great if I could eat them !
Now It's great to find skin relief, but we still need to understand WHY we can't eat many foods. All histamine liberator + starch makes a shit ton of food out of the diet. I talked a lot with a girl named "Melissa Bee" who had a website about the liver flush and her story with seb derm. Like us, she figured out a "safe diet" (mostly some fruit and vegetable I think) but started to deteriorate (no meat no surprise but she couldnt handled meat either without flaring up)
So she started to perform 1 liver flush a month for 2 years and slowly she was able to eat her previous "trigger food" without incidence, or for much longer before having a breakout. After the 2 years she could eat what she want and was fine. Then, after a couple of years without liver flush and bad eating habits (coming from a very restrictive diet for years, she just enjoyed food and live for a couple of years) the SD started to come back, tho much less than before. She started the liver flush regimen again, and after some months it went away again and from there she ate "clean" and did maintenance liver flush. No more SD.
I too experimented with the liver flush (did 16 of them) and some time, my skin cleared up nicely as well. Tho I was still eating 400+g of carbs from starch (rice, beans..) and eating histamin liberator food etc.. Sometime the flush did nothing.
I wonder if it's because while I was doing it, I was still eating an "inflammatory diet" for me. Meaning that the only difference between me and Melissa was that she was "controlling" her symptoms with her restrictive diet while she was doing the flush, so inflammation was minimized, while it was def not the case for me.
So I wonder if one success to find a "safe diet" like the one you are doing for you, or hopefully what I'm trying to achieve for myself, then the flushes will be more effective at unclogging the liver...
I strongly believe that at least in my case, I have some liver involvment. 2 years ago, while I was trying (yet again another diet experiment for the SD) the keto diet with 200g+ fat per day I started to have constant tenderness at the right upper abdominal quadrant (liver/gb) but despite all the exam done in 2 years, nothing was ever found... But I still have the tenderness 24/7 and it's very annoying too.
I have uploaded her website link, sadly it's offline this years so maybe she forget to pay and went on living or something.. But it was a great ressource for SD/liver flush
Uploaded files:
Quote from Mat on August 18, 2022, 5:00 am@max-3 Yes I might be more restrictive for now until I clear the pso/seb derm and then it will be easier to see how things affect me. How long did it took for you to have your 90% clearance with that low histamin liberator diet, and what food did you eat while you were working your way towards it ?
I dont know anymore how long it took, but 80% of my diet was apples, cucumbers (both peeled and consumed as juice or smoothie), raw honey, salt, extra virgin olive oil, sardines. These foods I ate pretty much daily, and then the other 20% was other fruits, vegetables, chicken, beef, sometimes smoked salmon. I admit, this diet is boring as hell, but if it makes my life so much better, it is worth it for me. I sleep so much better, better skin, less itchiness, better mood. And sadly I get worse pretty fast if I cheat on that diet. I also noticed that starch makes me a little bit depressed.
I have no experience with liver flushes, but if it works for you, thats great!
In my case I believe the root cause of my food intolerances are accutane and prolonged stress. Sadly I cant turn the glock back and avoid these mistakes. But I am glad that I found a way now to be pretty healthy. But as I said, I have to be strict about it. I can not cheat or I will get slowly get worse again.
But in the past I have done diets way more extreme than this. I ate only grapes for 40 days, ate only raw meat for 30 days, I ate raw organs and eggs. Carnivore for years, Juice fasts, water fasts, tons of butter, I have done it all 😀 Sticking to this diet is like a walk in the park for me.