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Hypothyroidism
Quote from
salt on February 15, 2021, 8:39 pm
Quote from
leap7 on February 13, 2021, 4:12 pm
What has been your experience with hypothyroidism on this diet? What are your thoughts on supplementing thyroid?
I think I am hypothyroid. I think I have had subclinical/undiagnosed hypothyroidism for most of my life. I have never had any blood tests done, but I think I have physical signs. My extreme sleep schedule (sleeping around 5 am getting up around 1 pm) and some hypertrophied muscles that I think are mild Hoffman's syndrome 0r hypothyroid myopathy. Fried looking hair. My tongue also has indentations on the side. Should I start supplementing thyroid? A reservation I have about supplementing is that I read that you will have to take the medication for the rest of your life. I'd be grateful to know of any experiences.
By the way please don't misinterpret my posts to mean that I think that you shouldn't try thyroid. It's probably a good idea to get some blood tests beforehand though. Not that they are very useful, but they are a little bit useful. What's considered a healthy level is controversial and there are many differing opinions on it. I think that stuff about "you have to take it for the rest of your life" is nonsense.
Quote from
leap7 on February 13, 2021, 4:12 pm
What has been your experience with hypothyroidism on this diet? What are your thoughts on supplementing thyroid?
I think I am hypothyroid. I think I have had subclinical/undiagnosed hypothyroidism for most of my life. I have never had any blood tests done, but I think I have physical signs. My extreme sleep schedule (sleeping around 5 am getting up around 1 pm) and some hypertrophied muscles that I think are mild Hoffman's syndrome 0r hypothyroid myopathy. Fried looking hair. My tongue also has indentations on the side. Should I start supplementing thyroid? A reservation I have about supplementing is that I read that you will have to take the medication for the rest of your life. I'd be grateful to know of any experiences.
By the way please don't misinterpret my posts to mean that I think that you shouldn't try thyroid. It's probably a good idea to get some blood tests beforehand though. Not that they are very useful, but they are a little bit useful. What's considered a healthy level is controversial and there are many differing opinions on it. I think that stuff about "you have to take it for the rest of your life" is nonsense.
Quote from
salt on February 15, 2021, 8:46 pm
Quote from
Vinero on February 15, 2021, 2:41 am
@salt What a coincidence! Last week I doubled my bean consumption and started feeling really bad after a few days.
Cold, anxiety, depression. Since I am familiar with ray peat I googled ray peat bean article and found the same article as you posted. I think beans should be approached carefully. Ray Peat is probably right that they are estrogenic and cause hypothyroidism. I think of beans as medicine instead of a staple food now. I think starches and meat are foundation of the diet. Beans might be added to the base of starch and meat if you want to detox faster. Beans help to pull vitamin A from the liver but some is going to go into your system causing flare-ups or hypothyroid symptoms.
In Grants e-books were he outlines his diet at the end he said he only eats 100 grams of cooked beans a day. That is not a lot.
I don't think beans or fiber are necessary for detoxing VA at all. Are they helpful? I don't know. Garrett has written a lot about it but I haven't seen much evidence. And if fiber is why it is theoretically helpful, you could get that fiber from vegetables instead. By the way, during Grant's first year of the diet he said he only ate meat and rice.
But for those who tolerate beans well they're a good source of folate.
Quote from
Vinero on February 15, 2021, 2:41 am
@salt What a coincidence! Last week I doubled my bean consumption and started feeling really bad after a few days.
Cold, anxiety, depression. Since I am familiar with ray peat I googled ray peat bean article and found the same article as you posted. I think beans should be approached carefully. Ray Peat is probably right that they are estrogenic and cause hypothyroidism. I think of beans as medicine instead of a staple food now. I think starches and meat are foundation of the diet. Beans might be added to the base of starch and meat if you want to detox faster. Beans help to pull vitamin A from the liver but some is going to go into your system causing flare-ups or hypothyroid symptoms.
In Grants e-books were he outlines his diet at the end he said he only eats 100 grams of cooked beans a day. That is not a lot.
I don't think beans or fiber are necessary for detoxing VA at all. Are they helpful? I don't know. Garrett has written a lot about it but I haven't seen much evidence. And if fiber is why it is theoretically helpful, you could get that fiber from vegetables instead. By the way, during Grant's first year of the diet he said he only ate meat and rice.
But for those who tolerate beans well they're a good source of folate.
rockarolla has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Vinero on February 16, 2021, 2:54 am
Cooked button mushrooms are a great alternative for beans. They really help to prevent constipation on just a meat + rice diet. They contain no vitamin A or carotenoids, and don't cause the hypothyroid symptoms that beans can cause. I feel really good eating meat, rice and mushrooms. What kind of vegetables do you think provide fiber without carotenoids @salt?
Cooked button mushrooms are a great alternative for beans. They really help to prevent constipation on just a meat + rice diet. They contain no vitamin A or carotenoids, and don't cause the hypothyroid symptoms that beans can cause. I feel really good eating meat, rice and mushrooms. What kind of vegetables do you think provide fiber without carotenoids @salt?
Quote from
saraleah11 on February 16, 2021, 2:59 am
Quote from
salt on February 14, 2021, 2:52 pm
Quote from
leap7 on February 14, 2021, 1:48 pm
@salt I'm curious, if you don't eat beans, what do you eat on this diet? Just starches and meat? Do you eat any vegetables?
Currently I'm doing a short zero carb experiment but without going too much into detail typically I would eat:
- instant potato mash (no dairy) (I get allergic symptoms from regular potatoes but if you tolerate them I think they're a great food)
- cassava
- sundried dark raisins
- parsnips
- celeriac
- cod and other low-fat whitefish like haddock, saithe, plaice. I try to discard as much fat as possible
- coconut oil
Occasionally I'd have some cauliflower and other white brassica family vegetables, but these are also bad for the thyroid so I have them maybe once every 2 weeks or so, and only if I crave it. I have red meat at about the same frequency, I don't feel well when I eat a lot of iron. Sometimes I have some turkey breast. Raisins or white sugar if I want something sweet.
Salt could I ask what your zero carb experiment looks like and how you are feeling? I lowered carbs 6 months ago, no potato no rice. I found it helpful, how are you doing with it? I am not at zero carbs, keep it around 30-60 daily.
Quote from
salt on February 14, 2021, 2:52 pm
Quote from
leap7 on February 14, 2021, 1:48 pm
@salt I'm curious, if you don't eat beans, what do you eat on this diet? Just starches and meat? Do you eat any vegetables?
Currently I'm doing a short zero carb experiment but without going too much into detail typically I would eat:
- instant potato mash (no dairy) (I get allergic symptoms from regular potatoes but if you tolerate them I think they're a great food)
- cassava
- sundried dark raisins
- parsnips
- celeriac
- cod and other low-fat whitefish like haddock, saithe, plaice. I try to discard as much fat as possible
- coconut oil
Occasionally I'd have some cauliflower and other white brassica family vegetables, but these are also bad for the thyroid so I have them maybe once every 2 weeks or so, and only if I crave it. I have red meat at about the same frequency, I don't feel well when I eat a lot of iron. Sometimes I have some turkey breast. Raisins or white sugar if I want something sweet.
Salt could I ask what your zero carb experiment looks like and how you are feeling? I lowered carbs 6 months ago, no potato no rice. I found it helpful, how are you doing with it? I am not at zero carbs, keep it around 30-60 daily.
Quote from
Vinero on February 16, 2021, 3:10 am
@rockarolla Endotoxin from beans, yes that is possible too. Either way, beans make me feel bad. The effect is not instant but usually creeps up on me after a couple of days after increasing fiber intake from beans. The opposite is also true. When I stop eating beans completely and just eat meat, rice and button mushrooms I start to feel really clear headed, energetic and euphoric after 3-5 days. My vision becomes much sharper and more focused as well. Either the beans cause increased detox symptoms from the retinoids that it pulles from the liver or the beans cause increased production of endotoxin causing depression and hypothyroidism.
So the question becomes: are beans helpful or not? Are they needed to detox vitamin A at all? Can activated charcoal and white button mushrooms act as non harmful alternatives to beans? Beans might help to speed up the detox by pulling vitamin a from the liver but also cause damage to tissues during this process since some of those retinoids end up in your circulation were they damage tissues. Maybe detoxing vitamin A slower without eating beans is safer. The body can eliminate vitamin A via the kidneys too I think.
@rockarolla Endotoxin from beans, yes that is possible too. Either way, beans make me feel bad. The effect is not instant but usually creeps up on me after a couple of days after increasing fiber intake from beans. The opposite is also true. When I stop eating beans completely and just eat meat, rice and button mushrooms I start to feel really clear headed, energetic and euphoric after 3-5 days. My vision becomes much sharper and more focused as well. Either the beans cause increased detox symptoms from the retinoids that it pulles from the liver or the beans cause increased production of endotoxin causing depression and hypothyroidism.
So the question becomes: are beans helpful or not? Are they needed to detox vitamin A at all? Can activated charcoal and white button mushrooms act as non harmful alternatives to beans? Beans might help to speed up the detox by pulling vitamin a from the liver but also cause damage to tissues during this process since some of those retinoids end up in your circulation were they damage tissues. Maybe detoxing vitamin A slower without eating beans is safer. The body can eliminate vitamin A via the kidneys too I think.
Quote from
rockarolla on February 16, 2021, 4:24 am
Is resistant starch the same stuff as fiber? I've read somewhere that if the rice got cooled its resistant starch content spikes.
I had a strange reaction to beans - tried white ones yesterday and just after a few completely lost the taste for them, also the next portion(after like 4 hours) was completely tasteless from the beginning.
Is resistant starch the same stuff as fiber? I've read somewhere that if the rice got cooled its resistant starch content spikes.
I had a strange reaction to beans - tried white ones yesterday and just after a few completely lost the taste for them, also the next portion(after like 4 hours) was completely tasteless from the beginning.
Quote from
Jiří on February 16, 2021, 5:48 am
@rockarolla resistant starch is not like a fiber. Fiber will go out with your stool. Resistant starch(when it's cooked and cooled white rice) will be fermented in the large intestine. So there is no benefit where the fiber can grab old bile and some other toxins and remove it with the stool.. Generally resistant starch is really bad idea.. Because most people have already to much bacteria even in small intestine due to higher pH in the stomach, bad bile production/flow etc.. Beans are mainly pectin which is bad type of soluble fiber. Try beta glucan from mushrooms or oats are great source of beta glucan. Oats are really good if you don't have issues with it.. It's full of beta glucan..
@rockarolla resistant starch is not like a fiber. Fiber will go out with your stool. Resistant starch(when it's cooked and cooled white rice) will be fermented in the large intestine. So there is no benefit where the fiber can grab old bile and some other toxins and remove it with the stool.. Generally resistant starch is really bad idea.. Because most people have already to much bacteria even in small intestine due to higher pH in the stomach, bad bile production/flow etc.. Beans are mainly pectin which is bad type of soluble fiber. Try beta glucan from mushrooms or oats are great source of beta glucan. Oats are really good if you don't have issues with it.. It's full of beta glucan..
tim and rockarolla have reacted to this post.
Quote from
rockarolla on February 16, 2021, 5:54 am
Also beans contain a lot of polyphenols(plant antibiotics) - https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1541-4337.12391
Maybe the toxemia symptoms are not directly from beans but from them killing gut bugs which are thriving due to still relatively weak immune system thanks to previous excessive A exposure. A and carotenoids possess a huge steroidal effect over immune cells similar to pharma steroids and recovery from the consequences could take some time.
Also beans contain a lot of polyphenols(plant antibiotics) - https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1541-4337.12391
Maybe the toxemia symptoms are not directly from beans but from them killing gut bugs which are thriving due to still relatively weak immune system thanks to previous excessive A exposure. A and carotenoids possess a huge steroidal effect over immune cells similar to pharma steroids and recovery from the consequences could take some time.
Quote from
lil chick on February 16, 2021, 5:56 am
I used to read a gluten-free list and the list owner was all about glucomanan also known as konjac-- a specific kind of fiber that you can buy in pills or noodles. I don't know if it was helping her clean up VA, (without her even knowing) but maybe! As a person with food in tolerances, I wouldn't be surprised if she had a high level of VA she was dealing with. She felt it helped her gut.
I used to read a gluten-free list and the list owner was all about glucomanan also known as konjac-- a specific kind of fiber that you can buy in pills or noodles. I don't know if it was helping her clean up VA, (without her even knowing) but maybe! As a person with food in tolerances, I wouldn't be surprised if she had a high level of VA she was dealing with. She felt it helped her gut.
Quote from
tim on February 16, 2021, 6:13 am
+1 what @jiri said. There is a lot of research showing benefits for beta glucan. Pectin on the other hand leads to methanol -> formaldehyde production in the gut. Legumes are a rich source of pectin. They are very good in moderation I just wouldn't overdo. Mushrooms are excellent, they are pectin free, carotenoid free, high in riboflavin (dairy is the main source of riboflavin in most people's diet so beef and mushrooms should be consumed when on a dairy free diet) and high in beta glucan. It's good to include different species of mushrooms in the diet.
+1 what @jiri said. There is a lot of research showing benefits for beta glucan. Pectin on the other hand leads to methanol -> formaldehyde production in the gut. Legumes are a rich source of pectin. They are very good in moderation I just wouldn't overdo. Mushrooms are excellent, they are pectin free, carotenoid free, high in riboflavin (dairy is the main source of riboflavin in most people's diet so beef and mushrooms should be consumed when on a dairy free diet) and high in beta glucan. It's good to include different species of mushrooms in the diet.
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