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#71 · October 28, 2021, 6:45 pm

Having just gotten over Covid, I can report that the worst part by far was the involuntary panic I felt due to having such a world famous and hyped virus. I guess it depends on your risk profile, but I was not intellectually worried about mine prior to contracting it, nor the rest of my family's. But I guess all the pent-up worry just exploded, because on day #2 I was nearly panicked with completely irrational fear.

Now, I think I am much more prepared for next time (and I sadly do think there will be Next Times, like the flu, as it mutates - like the flu - and makes its rounds). Viruses like this seem to get less acute in time, and I think this diet is putting me on the right track to bolster my immune system. I will NOT take a megadose of vitamin D next time!

And while the virus is no picnic at ALL, natural immunity seems to last for at least a year, and I'm crossing my fingers for two.

Curious Observer, Rachel and 3 other users have reacted to this post.

#72 · October 29, 2021, 1:54 pm

Quote from Hermes on October 29, 2021, 1:54 pm

Quote from wavygravygadzooks on October 27, 2021, 2:40 pm

@christian

@wavygravygadzooks

Reasons to be concerned about the Covid vaccines include short-term and long-term scenarios:

Potential for serious harm in the short-term seems pretty low for most individuals at this point, but there are far more adverse events being reported for these vaccines than any previous vaccine, and a small number of people are dying or being compromised by cardiac problems and strokes. Thus, absolute risk for these complications in the near-term is low, but relative risk compared to other vaccines is high.

Just because adverse effects are not immediately recognizable does not mean you have not done immediate damage to your body. If the spike proteins generated by the vaccines are anywhere near as harmful as those from the actual virus, then it's highly likely you're doing some damage to your body that's irreversible. Decades from now, we might see a correlation between getting these Covid shots and a variety of ailments or premature death...we won't know until the time passes, which is why it usually takes many years for new drugs to make it to market, to allow time for a complete study of adverse effects.

Animal trials for these types of vaccines had very poor outcomes, both in terms of lack of immune benefits and complications from the vaccine. Ultimately, human trials are more telling than animal trials, but some (or all?) of the placebo controlled human trials have been cut short by allowing the placebo groups to be vaccinated, meaning we now lack true randomized control trials in humans. This makes it very difficult to ever understand the true effects of the vaccines, whether they're good or bad.

Virologists like Geert Vanden Bossche have proposed that mass vaccination that is rolled out over a long period of time, which is never 100% complete vaccination across the entire world, and which is "leaky" (still allows for both infection and transmission even if it diminishes symptoms), is likely to result in rapid mutation and immune escape of the virus. Teaching the immune system to respond to a single stimulus in the vaccine (a single version of the spike protein, which has already mutated) makes this whole problem even more likely to happen. If this is what is happening (and there is evidence to suggest it is), then vaccination may actually be prolonging the pandemic and possibly enabling more damage to young and healthy individuals who would otherwise have fought off the original strain of the virus without issue.

Novel ingredients like PEG may have long-term consequences, such as auto-immunity, which are not yet recognized.

Personally, I've become more and more averse to technology, especially recent technology, as it gets rolled out faster and faster without enough time passing to fully understand the implications of it. Think about the mountains of novel chemicals that have been introduced to our daily lives over the past 50-100 years and the large proportion of those that have been linked to diseases. When you consider the shitty track record that humans have with really and truly solving large-scale problems without creating another problem in the process, it seems idiotic to put so much trust in a fast-tracked product that uses novel technology, is produced for profit by disreputable pharmaceutical companies who are not liable for adverse effects, and has not completed the standard trials for new drugs (ALL of which have side effects that have to be considered when judging benefit-to-risk ratios).

I see two main reasons for getting a Covid vaccine:

(1) You fall into the minority group that is highly susceptible to bad outcomes from the virus.

(2) Your livelihood will be extensively compromised if you refuse the vaccine (e.g. job loss, destruction of social networks and family ties)

I can't blame most people for getting a Covid vaccine out of fear, but the logic behind vaccination against this virus has never been strong and has only weakened over time as we've discovered successful treatment strategies and identified the comorbidities most associated with bad outcomes. If you can afford it, I think it's important to take a stand against such idiocy, tyranny, or whatever is behind the pushing and mandating of these vaccines. The fewer rational people that take a stand against it now, the more likely it is to happen again in the future.

@wavygravygadzooks

Thanks for putting the concern in such lucid words. We see mostly short-term ill effects when people on different forums (like the Ray Peat Forum) report side effects, but as you mention, they're relatively so much higher compared to other vaccines. To me, those should be enough to halt the widespread use of the vaccines. I assume most people won't experience much side effects, certainly not in the short-term. At least those that I know who have gotten the vaccine are doing fine. I've read reports by people who mention how people who have been vaccinated lose contact with their soul, it's a word salad that I find mostly off-putting but is illustrative of the deep-seated fear around this novel vaccine, and the controversy around it. I've had vehement discussions with my girlfriend over the vaccine, and, well, she went ahead and got it. It really concerned me for a while, but then again, I wish her only good health, and so far she's doing just fine. It is also relevant to get to know the health status of people. I assume those who are more sick will experience more side effects, those who are doing fine in their life will not notice much. But as you say, we simply don't know the long-term effects. And what happens after the fifth? Or the eleventh booster shoot? I think Grant has hypothesized that retinoic acid might be in them as an adjuvant. And there's probably some other deadly ingredients in the cocktail that we don't know about its long-term effects like PEG you've mentioned. And what else might be in there that the pharma industry discloses?

I've heard about those animal trials where the animals supposedly all died after the vaccine has been injected. This is rather unsettling to me. Not to jump to conclusions here, but it doesn't look promising at the very least. To me, all smells really fishy, like a big ploy by the pharmaceutical industry to make big money. No one ever talks about natural immunity, about how to strengthen it with diet or supplements. Viruses have been around long before humans evolved, we learned to adapt and overcome diseases. I'm also very skeptical towards the pharmaceutical industry in general because I first took SSRI's when I was 17 after I contracted meningitis and was in the ER for one week. After that incident I couldn't focus on school work that well anymore, a neuropsychiatrist recommended Prozac, as if it was some vitamin. Well, that's how I got introduced to SSRI's, and for the following ten years I would take them with some intermittent brakes for a year here and there. And I tell you what, it's total BS the entire narrative with too little serotonin in the postsynaptic gap. It's marketing nonsense. If I knew back then what diet can contribute, things would have turned out differently, maybe. It's just the entire industry is so little concerned with people's well-being and so much more interested in profit. Why would it be any different with the vaccines they claim will be needed to finish the p(l)andemic? You see my leanings, and I have a really hard time trusting the big names, big words, and big corporations.

I feel similar skepticism towards new technology as you do. We hardly ever think about the new problems we create by trying to implement some solutions. How the vaccine will eventually affect us all will be seen in the future. I really start to dislike smart technology in particular, as if with more sensors and more data we'll be better able to solve our problems. Every city at the moment seems to have some smart city concept in the pipeline, all connected to lowering carbon emission.

I totally agree with you on the last two points why people might want to take the vaccine. It's really hard to resist it because in some places the pressure is really unbearable. And the anxiety too. People really are afraid of this virus, not because the lethality is so exorbitant, but because the media makes this virus so dangerous. 24/7 reports about it really erode any faith in your own body.

Quote from wavygravygadzooks on October 27, 2021, 2:40 pm

@christian

@wavygravygadzooks

Reasons to be concerned about the Covid vaccines include short-term and long-term scenarios:

Potential for serious harm in the short-term seems pretty low for most individuals at this point, but there are far more adverse events being reported for these vaccines than any previous vaccine, and a small number of people are dying or being compromised by cardiac problems and strokes. Thus, absolute risk for these complications in the near-term is low, but relative risk compared to other vaccines is high.

Just because adverse effects are not immediately recognizable does not mean you have not done immediate damage to your body. If the spike proteins generated by the vaccines are anywhere near as harmful as those from the actual virus, then it's highly likely you're doing some damage to your body that's irreversible. Decades from now, we might see a correlation between getting these Covid shots and a variety of ailments or premature death...we won't know until the time passes, which is why it usually takes many years for new drugs to make it to market, to allow time for a complete study of adverse effects.

Animal trials for these types of vaccines had very poor outcomes, both in terms of lack of immune benefits and complications from the vaccine. Ultimately, human trials are more telling than animal trials, but some (or all?) of the placebo controlled human trials have been cut short by allowing the placebo groups to be vaccinated, meaning we now lack true randomized control trials in humans. This makes it very difficult to ever understand the true effects of the vaccines, whether they're good or bad.

Virologists like Geert Vanden Bossche have proposed that mass vaccination that is rolled out over a long period of time, which is never 100% complete vaccination across the entire world, and which is "leaky" (still allows for both infection and transmission even if it diminishes symptoms), is likely to result in rapid mutation and immune escape of the virus. Teaching the immune system to respond to a single stimulus in the vaccine (a single version of the spike protein, which has already mutated) makes this whole problem even more likely to happen. If this is what is happening (and there is evidence to suggest it is), then vaccination may actually be prolonging the pandemic and possibly enabling more damage to young and healthy individuals who would otherwise have fought off the original strain of the virus without issue.

Novel ingredients like PEG may have long-term consequences, such as auto-immunity, which are not yet recognized.

Personally, I've become more and more averse to technology, especially recent technology, as it gets rolled out faster and faster without enough time passing to fully understand the implications of it. Think about the mountains of novel chemicals that have been introduced to our daily lives over the past 50-100 years and the large proportion of those that have been linked to diseases. When you consider the shitty track record that humans have with really and truly solving large-scale problems without creating another problem in the process, it seems idiotic to put so much trust in a fast-tracked product that uses novel technology, is produced for profit by disreputable pharmaceutical companies who are not liable for adverse effects, and has not completed the standard trials for new drugs (ALL of which have side effects that have to be considered when judging benefit-to-risk ratios).

I see two main reasons for getting a Covid vaccine:

(1) You fall into the minority group that is highly susceptible to bad outcomes from the virus.

(2) Your livelihood will be extensively compromised if you refuse the vaccine (e.g. job loss, destruction of social networks and family ties)

I can't blame most people for getting a Covid vaccine out of fear, but the logic behind vaccination against this virus has never been strong and has only weakened over time as we've discovered successful treatment strategies and identified the comorbidities most associated with bad outcomes. If you can afford it, I think it's important to take a stand against such idiocy, tyranny, or whatever is behind the pushing and mandating of these vaccines. The fewer rational people that take a stand against it now, the more likely it is to happen again in the future.

@wavygravygadzooks

Thanks for putting the concern in such lucid words. We see mostly short-term ill effects when people on different forums (like the Ray Peat Forum) report side effects, but as you mention, they're relatively so much higher compared to other vaccines. To me, those should be enough to halt the widespread use of the vaccines. I assume most people won't experience much side effects, certainly not in the short-term. At least those that I know who have gotten the vaccine are doing fine. I've read reports by people who mention how people who have been vaccinated lose contact with their soul, it's a word salad that I find mostly off-putting but is illustrative of the deep-seated fear around this novel vaccine, and the controversy around it. I've had vehement discussions with my girlfriend over the vaccine, and, well, she went ahead and got it. It really concerned me for a while, but then again, I wish her only good health, and so far she's doing just fine. It is also relevant to get to know the health status of people. I assume those who are more sick will experience more side effects, those who are doing fine in their life will not notice much. But as you say, we simply don't know the long-term effects. And what happens after the fifth? Or the eleventh booster shoot? I think Grant has hypothesized that retinoic acid might be in them as an adjuvant. And there's probably some other deadly ingredients in the cocktail that we don't know about its long-term effects like PEG you've mentioned. And what else might be in there that the pharma industry discloses?

I've heard about those animal trials where the animals supposedly all died after the vaccine has been injected. This is rather unsettling to me. Not to jump to conclusions here, but it doesn't look promising at the very least. To me, all smells really fishy, like a big ploy by the pharmaceutical industry to make big money. No one ever talks about natural immunity, about how to strengthen it with diet or supplements. Viruses have been around long before humans evolved, we learned to adapt and overcome diseases. I'm also very skeptical towards the pharmaceutical industry in general because I first took SSRI's when I was 17 after I contracted meningitis and was in the ER for one week. After that incident I couldn't focus on school work that well anymore, a neuropsychiatrist recommended Prozac, as if it was some vitamin. Well, that's how I got introduced to SSRI's, and for the following ten years I would take them with some intermittent brakes for a year here and there. And I tell you what, it's total BS the entire narrative with too little serotonin in the postsynaptic gap. It's marketing nonsense. If I knew back then what diet can contribute, things would have turned out differently, maybe. It's just the entire industry is so little concerned with people's well-being and so much more interested in profit. Why would it be any different with the vaccines they claim will be needed to finish the p(l)andemic? You see my leanings, and I have a really hard time trusting the big names, big words, and big corporations.

I feel similar skepticism towards new technology as you do. We hardly ever think about the new problems we create by trying to implement some solutions. How the vaccine will eventually affect us all will be seen in the future. I really start to dislike smart technology in particular, as if with more sensors and more data we'll be better able to solve our problems. Every city at the moment seems to have some smart city concept in the pipeline, all connected to lowering carbon emission.

I totally agree with you on the last two points why people might want to take the vaccine. It's really hard to resist it because in some places the pressure is really unbearable. And the anxiety too. People really are afraid of this virus, not because the lethality is so exorbitant, but because the media makes this virus so dangerous. 24/7 reports about it really erode any faith in your own body.

Даниил has reacted to this post.

#73 · October 29, 2021, 2:39 pm

Quote from wavygravygadzooks on October 29, 2021, 2:39 pm
@christian

Yes, yes, and yes.

Unfortunately, I do think that some technology may be necessary to overcome the obstacles created by high-density living until we've figured out a way to humanely reduce the global population to more sustainable numbers. Vaccines (that are well-studied) may be one of those necessities for modern life if high-density living and global interconnectedness are enabling novel viruses to spread farther and faster than ever before. Our natural immune response is still the best defense we have, but the modern living environments we're in are probably pushing our immune systems to their limits, especially when we're fighting viruses that have been tinkered with in a lab so that they do not conform to the typical evolutionary constraints of wild viruses.

All of our problems seem to stem from overpopulation, which created a need to hoard and control limited resources, which encouraged selfishness, greed, and deception to gain power over others, which led to a deadly form of capitalistic economy that demands continuous growth, which is clearly unsustainable and will be the death knell of humanity if we don't come to our senses. The existing "system" has so much momentum though, it's hard to see how we'll ever coordinate a global plan to break that inertia. Everyone is so busy trying to make ends meet under the delusion that there will be a better tomorrow if we can only live through today. We need to actively devalue everything that is needlessly sucking away resources and increase the perceived value of basic human necessities like community, kindness and reciprocity, purpose in life, and obtaining real high-quality food. The small-scale organic farmer should be one of the most lauded jobs, and we should be spending most of our money on food rather than trying to eat as cheaply as possible. We should apply trickle down economics to our health...if you make the acquisition of good food the peak of all goals, so many other things will naturally fall into place.

@christian

Yes, yes, and yes.

Unfortunately, I do think that some technology may be necessary to overcome the obstacles created by high-density living until we've figured out a way to humanely reduce the global population to more sustainable numbers. Vaccines (that are well-studied) may be one of those necessities for modern life if high-density living and global interconnectedness are enabling novel viruses to spread farther and faster than ever before. Our natural immune response is still the best defense we have, but the modern living environments we're in are probably pushing our immune systems to their limits, especially when we're fighting viruses that have been tinkered with in a lab so that they do not conform to the typical evolutionary constraints of wild viruses.

All of our problems seem to stem from overpopulation, which created a need to hoard and control limited resources, which encouraged selfishness, greed, and deception to gain power over others, which led to a deadly form of capitalistic economy that demands continuous growth, which is clearly unsustainable and will be the death knell of humanity if we don't come to our senses. The existing "system" has so much momentum though, it's hard to see how we'll ever coordinate a global plan to break that inertia. Everyone is so busy trying to make ends meet under the delusion that there will be a better tomorrow if we can only live through today. We need to actively devalue everything that is needlessly sucking away resources and increase the perceived value of basic human necessities like community, kindness and reciprocity, purpose in life, and obtaining real high-quality food. The small-scale organic farmer should be one of the most lauded jobs, and we should be spending most of our money on food rather than trying to eat as cheaply as possible. We should apply trickle down economics to our health...if you make the acquisition of good food the peak of all goals, so many other things will naturally fall into place.

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#74 · November 11, 2021, 1:53 am

Little update

Over the last month or so I've had a variety of symptoms, these being;

Left eyebrow twitches, small twitches in legs and arms etc

Short term memory is absolutely shocking right now

Fatty stools

Mood changes

Cognitive issues

So I've been back and forth with doctors having all kinds of blood work done, including;

Pancreatic Enzyme function

Liver function

Tests for diabetes

Ultrasound of gallbladder, pancreas and liver

Vitamins b1, b2 and b12

Its been a few years since I read Grants books, however I thought at least one of those tests would prove my Accutane or vit A overdose. Everything came back in the normal ranges.

Is there anything I may be missing?

I remember in the boom Grant mentioned using a cheap tool to scan the body for vit a. Perhaps that's the next step?

#75 · November 11, 2021, 2:30 am

I'm looking at seems like the last couple of months have been (relatively) difficult for everyone.

#76 · November 11, 2021, 6:07 am

Quote from Даниил on November 11, 2021, 2:30 am

I'm looking at seems like the last couple of months have been (relatively) difficult for everyone.

I'm starting to wonder if spike shedding from vaccinated ones are causing some of this new found difficulty. It has been reported by quite a few in the Marshall Protocol site as well. Interestingly, my flares occurred shortly after my wife's shots.

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#77 · November 11, 2021, 6:46 am

There is probably something to shedding. My girlfriend got the shot too, and after we meet, I feel particularly tired for a few days. I wonder if it's in my head or real. I've read somewhere that the spike protein shedding is detectable two weeks after the shots, but then it isn't measurable anymore. I hope there is some truth to that. It would mean that shedding occurs within a time window. If you're healthy as a horse, you probably won't notice much to begin with. It's the vulnerable, those with compromised health, who struggle more with it.

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#78 · November 11, 2021, 6:48 am

@armin, how is it going for you with the olmesartan at the moment? I'm still considering buying some, but I'm a little hesitant to buy more supplements/drugs.

#79 · November 11, 2021, 7:12 am

Quote from Hermes on November 11, 2021, 6:48 am

@armin, how is it going for you with the olmesartan at the moment? I'm still considering buying some, but I'm a little hesitant to buy more supplements/drugs.

I'm about 3.5 months at full 160mg/day (40mg every 6 hours-ish). Started it August 1st, 2021. Blood pressure didn't drop too much. 120/78ish down to 113/67.

I have no complaints other than the days I don't drink or eat any sodium for an extended period of time (~ 24 hours).

The meds are really cheap for me and have no trouble getting them filled. Just taking it month by month, which I am used to. Just wish I would have jumped back on earlier in my plight this time around.

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#80 · November 11, 2021, 7:16 am

Quote from Hermes on November 11, 2021, 6:46 am

There is probably something to shedding. My girlfriend got the shot too, and after we meet, I feel particularly tired for a few days. I wonder if it's in my head or real. I've read somewhere that the spike protein shedding is detectable two weeks after the shots, but then it isn't measurable anymore. I hope there is some truth to that. It would mean that shedding occurs within a time window. If you're healthy as a horse, you probably won't notice much to begin with. It's the vulnerable, those with compromised health, who struggle more with it.

Yup. Us unhealthy ones get the double/tripple whammy. EMF also affects microbe virility in hosts so ones who are sick and live in EMF hotspots may have extra difficulties.

Along with this, we all have to try to be productive /survive in this ever insane world.

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