Quote from wavygravygadzooks on February 15, 2022, 12:37 pm

@mmb3664

If it's easy and affordable for you to get the Vitamin A serum measurements, it is indeed interesting just to see what happens over time.  It might not end up being diagnostic, but who knows, you and everyone here might learn something more from it.  So I wouldn't necessarily discourage it, I just wouldn't hang my hat on those numbers until you've got a lot more data to look at, whether that's more frequent testing, or testing over the span of a decade.

Quote from Даниил on February 15, 2022, 6:45 pm

Quote from Jiří on February 15, 2022, 12:42 am

Quote from Даниил on February 14, 2022, 6:14 pm

@mmb3664 could it be that the results of the analysis are just lying? The laboratory assistant did an analysis, found 0 VA in the blood, thought that some mistake had occurred and indicated a random number?

In another thread, you wrote that you eat lentils. There is a lot of lutein in it.

Bro... They don't care what numbers the lab results shows.. It's not like they think about each tests they are doing. They do the analysis, look at the lab ranges if it's out of range they write it in red for example and they move on on the other samples..

I know a man here in Russia who had his tongue cut out because one positive analysis turned out to be erroneous, and the laboratory assistant who did another analysis saw a positive result and put a positive one. Thus, the man received 2 (!) erroneous positive results for tongue cancer and had it cut out. Absolutely real story...

Quote from Viktor on February 16, 2022, 6:27 am

By the way, my result from 4 days ago (February 12th, 2022) for total retinol was 0.491 (range 0.325-0.780).

The previous one (December 4th, 2021, different lab) was 0.61 (range 0.2-0.8).

Quote from mmb3664 on June 16, 2022, 3:43 pm

Just a quick update. I got blood tests recently, so I wanted to repost my serum vitamin A values over time. Looks like things are moving in the right direction, but surprisingly, after over 3 years of following a low vitamin A diet (and even working with Dr. Smith), I am still not deficient. It's really eye-opening to see just how much vitamin A the body can store/hold onto! 

Date	Vitamin A (ug/dL)
Jan-19	59.4
Jul-19	57.7
Jan-20	43.0
Jul-20	57.0
Jan-21	38.8
Apr-21	53.6
Jul-21	42.2
Oct-21	64.2
Jan-22	37.3
Apr-22	32.7
Jun-22	34.5

 

Quote from Hermes on June 17, 2022, 3:58 am

@mmb3664

To me, it's rather frustrating that it takes so freaking long to even get in the deficient range. Nevertheless, it's fascinating. I'm also three years in with avoiding vitamin A pretty strictly, and I'm no where near a deficient number like you. Sigh. Wish you good luck and the endurance to continue with this journey.

Quote from mmb3664 on July 26, 2022, 5:11 am

Just wanted to post another update since June. I hope to be "deficient" in vA by the December/January timeframe so that I can begin to form a better opinion on whether I believe vA is truly a poison based on some self-experimentation. Ideally, I would like to remain deficient for as long as possible unless issues arise, similar to what @ggenereux2014 is doing. However, unlike Grant, I plan to do this using a high fat, predominantly muscle meat carnivore diet (I plan to eventually use butter and eggs sparingly unless they seem to increase serum levels of vA). I am curious to see if things get worse over time on a high fat diet as Dr. Smith suggests they would, i.e. Dr. Smith believes that high fat diets cause/contribute to cholestasis. 

I also wanted to mention that I have not taken any supplements for the past month, but plan to start using Dr. Smith's lactoferrin and Keystone Minerals for the next 4 months in an attempt to assist in getting my serum vA levels below the lab reference range (18.9 ug/dL for Labcorp, assuming they do not change the reference ranges). I plan to retest again in late December or early January.

Looking at the data, the overall reduction in serum vA levels in ~3.5 years is just slightly above 50%. The overall reduction in serum vA levels using my highest and lowest measurements over the past few years is roughly 55%. 

Date	Vitamin A (ug/dL)	% Change from Previous Test
19-Jan	59.4	-
19-Jul	57.7	-2.9%
20-Jan	43.0	-25.5%
20-Jul	57.0	32.6%
21-Jan	38.8	-31.9%
21-Apr	53.6	38.1%
21-Jul	42.2	-21.3%
21-Oct	64.2	52.1%
22-Jan	37.3	-41.9%
22-Apr	32.7	-12.3%
22-Jun	34.5	5.5%
22-Jul	28.8	-16.5%

 

Again, whether or not vA is a poison, it is impressive how long it can linger in the body/how much vA can be stored in the body. I think that this has been by far the most eye-opening lesson throughout this entire 3+ year process. The fluctuations in blood levels are also pretty interesting, but this might be more attributable to me, my body, and my "detox" implementation, i.e. others might not experience such drastic variations in their serum vA levels.  I think I also test more often than the common person because I am overly curious and apparently like to waste money. 🙂

Until next time, I wish everyone luck on their journey.

 

Quote from Jenny on July 26, 2022, 10:37 am

Incredibly interesting @mmb3664

Thanks for posting and thanks for being ‘overly curious’ 😀 Your results give a really good indication of, as you say, how much vA is stored in the body. Incredible that people think they can become deficient so easily! 

I’ve only done one vA test and that was in 2019 a few months after I’d started the low vA diet. I was 70+ proving what I already knew - that I was vA toxic. I really need to get it done again. I have no idea where I’ll be now. I have no intention of making myself deficient. Somewhere at the low end of normal will suit me. 

Quote from wavygravygadzooks on July 26, 2022, 11:53 am

@mmb3664

Thanks for the update.  Just remember that lactoferrin and supplemental minerals are not inherently innocuous.  I will be interested to hear if you get any noticeable symptoms from lactoferrin on a carnivore diet...my experience with that (diarrhea) suggests that it leads to bile acid dumping to the colon, which is not productive or desirable whatsoever.  Lactoferrin might also mess with your iron levels, although I'm not sure if it's more likely to encourage excess iron uptake or discourage iron uptake.

I also got elevated serum and hair zinc when supplementing zinc picolinate on a mostly carnivore diet, as well as a metallic taste in my mouth that went away when I stopped supplementing, and my serum copper levels dropped to borderline low.  Be careful!

Quote from mmb3664 on July 27, 2022, 4:38 am

@wavygravygadzooks Noted; I do both hair and blood testing to assist with mineral dosing, but agree that any supplements (whether minerals, vitamins, or things the body naturally produces such as lactoferrin) are not 100% without consequence. My previous experience with the lactoferrin was that it gave me cold-like symptoms if I took too large of a dose. The best way I could describe it was mild sinus congestion and a bit of brain fog. I have not noticed it affecting my iron levels to any notable degree in the past based on blood testing. My hope is that I should be fine supplementing for such a short period (4 months), but I will make sure to pay attention to any symptoms. I feel in tune with my body and will undoubtedly stop any supplementation if it makes things worse. Definitely don't want diarrhea lol. The overall goal would be zero supplementation, but I do not believe I am there yet. :/