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Labs/Tests
Cool!
I think if you get another low VA result, you would seem to making some excellent progress in liver VA status.
I think your results only prove one thing: retinol blood tests are as reliable as a h**ker on a witness stand. They may show if one is extremely 'deficient' or has enough luck to catch a high reading related to vitamin A toxicity, but everything in between means absolutely nothing, as well as any 'fluctuations'. It's not something like serum ferritin, where results actually reflect the amount of iron stored in the body. I bet that if you did the test on different days, the results would also be completely different.
I've done all vitamin A tests available in my city (Moscow): retinol, retinyl palmitate, and beta-carotene. All came back within normal range, although eating the tiniest bit of a carrot or pumpkin will send me to hell for a day or two.
Quote from Viktor on February 14, 2022, 8:52 amI think your results only prove one thing: retinol blood tests are as reliable as a h**ker on a witness stand. They may show if one is extremely 'deficient' or has enough luck to catch a high reading related to vitamin A toxicity, but everything in between means absolutely nothing, as well as any 'fluctuations'. It's not something like serum ferritin, where results actually reflect the amount of iron stored in the body. I bet that if you did the test on different days, the results would also be completely different.
I've done all vitamin A tests available in my city (Moscow): retinol, retinyl palmitate, and beta-carotene. All came back within normal range, although eating the tiniest bit of a carrot or pumpkin will send me to hell for a day or two.
Exactly same for copper for example. The body doesn't want toxic and dangerous stuff floating around in the blood.. It's all in the organs and only during "dump" the numbers will increase a lot..
I agree that blood tests for retinol and copper are unreliable in terms of testing on a daily basis, however, I think there is still value in seeing the overall long-term trend in the numbers. Do you guys not think there is any value looking at the numbers over the long term?
In general, both my blood levels of vA and copper are going down over time. I imagine that, in two or three more years, if I continue to get blood tests while on a low vA diet, my lab values will be lower than what they currently are, and possibly, be more consistent. I would imagine that if my blood levels of vA consistently came back at, say, <20 ug/dL, that would be a good indicator that the liver is likely not saturated with vA any more. Same thing with copper.
Statistically speaking, there is really no significant trend in your dataset. The second to last measurement is the highest value in the entire dataset. It looks like the variance in the measurements might be increasing over time.
If the values do end up consistently decreasing in the future, you've probably either depleted your Vitamin A stores or you've stopped mobilizing Vitamin A for some reason (like a protein deficiency). Symptoms are going to be important to your interpretation.
@mmb3664 could it be that the results of the analysis are just lying? The laboratory assistant did an analysis, found 0 VA in the blood, thought that some mistake had occurred and indicated a random number?
In another thread, you wrote that you eat lentils. There is a lot of lutein in it.
Quote from wavygravygadzooks on February 14, 2022, 5:24 pmStatistically speaking, there is really no significant trend in your dataset.
Fair and true statement.
Quote from Даниил on February 14, 2022, 6:14 pm@mmb3664 could it be that the results of the analysis are just lying?
Definitely could be.
When I started this low vA diet, I figured most people would not be testing their serum vA levels frequently, if at all. I thought, since I had a means to test every few months, why the hell not! However, if there is a general consensus that there is no value in/insight to be had from regular testing of serum vA throughout this process, then I will stop testing.
Thank you for your input!
Quote from mmb3664 on February 14, 2022, 4:55 pmI agree that blood tests for retinol and copper are unreliable in terms of testing on a daily basis, however, I think there is still value in seeing the overall long-term trend in the numbers. Do you guys not think there is any value looking at the numbers over the long term?
In general, both my blood levels of vA and copper are going down over time. I imagine that, in two or three more years, if I continue to get blood tests while on a low vA diet, my lab values will be lower than what they currently are, and possibly, be more consistent. I would imagine that if my blood levels of vA consistently came back at, say, <20 ug/dL, that would be a good indicator that the liver is likely not saturated with vA any more. Same thing with copper.
I never tested vit A, but my blood level of copper is low most of the time and here and there huge spike in free copper. So to me it looks like I am still toxic in copper..
Quote from Даниил on February 14, 2022, 6:14 pm@mmb3664 could it be that the results of the analysis are just lying? The laboratory assistant did an analysis, found 0 VA in the blood, thought that some mistake had occurred and indicated a random number?
In another thread, you wrote that you eat lentils. There is a lot of lutein in it.
Bro... 🙂 They don't care what numbers the lab results shows.. It's not like they think about each tests they are doing. They do the analysis, look at the lab ranges if it's out of range they write it in red for example and they move on on the other samples..
Quote from mmb3664 on February 14, 2022, 6:29 pmHowever, if there is a general consensus that there is no value in/insight to be had from regular testing of serum vA throughout this process, then I will stop testing.
Thank you for your input!
Well, maybe someone really finds your data useful, and maybe there will be some interesting trend afterward, so I don't want to be part of those who will be held responsible for the termination of such an experiment :))
As a matter of fact, it provides some valuable insights as it is, although at the moment the main one is the confirmation of the fact that serum vitamin A levels may have little to no correlation to the real picture (liver stores).
I will quote a person with the nickname Mans from the comments section here:
An update on my condition, it’s been 2 years since my toxicity. I got a blood test and my vitamin A levels came back normal. I thought I would try some Vitamin A foods to celebrate. I tried Beta Carotene foods first. Within minutes of ingesting 20g of carrot I experienced headache, hair loss, dry skin, confusion, anxiety, double vision, fatigue and depression, symptoms persisted for 24 hours. A few days later I tried mangoes and got the same symptoms. I then tried spinach which went a step further and gave me nausea and vomiting. A week later I tried eggs which gave similar symptoms to the carrots. The saving grace is that the symptoms fortunately only last for 24 hours from ingestion.
From research I have realised that the body can store an enormous amount of Vitamin A in a number of tissues and organs and not just in the liver. I am amazed after 2 years, I still have a lot of Vitamin A to cause symptoms.
Vitamin A toxicity is a condition extremely tough to get rid of.