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Labs/Tests
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mmb3664 on July 28, 2022, 3:01 pm
@r-2 As a disclaimer I will say that I am just offering my opinion and not giving any medical advice. That said, if those were my labs, I'd be fine with the copper and ceruloplasmin levels. The zinc measurement is personally lower than I'd like, so I would supplement zinc to raise serum levels to roughly 100 ug/dL. The zinc dose would have to be determined through trial and error, so I would stick with the same dose for 3 months and then retest to see if things need to be adjusted in terms of mg taken per day.
Again, not telling you what to do, just letting you know what I would do if those were my labs.
Based on other conversations I have seen on the forum, @jiri seems to know a lot more about copper and ceruloplasmin than I do; not sure if you want his input on your labs.
@r-2 As a disclaimer I will say that I am just offering my opinion and not giving any medical advice. That said, if those were my labs, I'd be fine with the copper and ceruloplasmin levels. The zinc measurement is personally lower than I'd like, so I would supplement zinc to raise serum levels to roughly 100 ug/dL. The zinc dose would have to be determined through trial and error, so I would stick with the same dose for 3 months and then retest to see if things need to be adjusted in terms of mg taken per day.
Again, not telling you what to do, just letting you know what I would do if those were my labs.
Based on other conversations I have seen on the forum, @jiri seems to know a lot more about copper and ceruloplasmin than I do; not sure if you want his input on your labs.
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Quote from
Carnivore on July 29, 2022, 3:48 am
How are the optimal levels of minerals, hormones, vitamins etc. in the human body determined? I'm quite sure it will make a difference if someone eats a mostly carbohydrate, plant-based diet as opposed to a high fat, carnivorous one. The body may need vastly different amounts of all kinds of things depending on which diet a person follows, and I'd guess that most dietary recommendations are based on a standard diet of "healthy whole grains and plenty of fruits and vegetables".
How are the optimal levels of minerals, hormones, vitamins etc. in the human body determined? I'm quite sure it will make a difference if someone eats a mostly carbohydrate, plant-based diet as opposed to a high fat, carnivorous one. The body may need vastly different amounts of all kinds of things depending on which diet a person follows, and I'd guess that most dietary recommendations are based on a standard diet of "healthy whole grains and plenty of fruits and vegetables".
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Quote from
mmb3664 on July 29, 2022, 5:24 am
Quote from
Carnivore on July 29, 2022, 3:48 am
How are the optimal levels of minerals, hormones, vitamins etc. in the human body determined?
This is an interesting question that no one knows the answer to. I agree that the body may need different amounts of various vitamins, minerals, etc. depending on diet. I think that other factors like age, sex, toxicity, health history, etc. also play a big role. I try to utilize testing not only to track my progress, but also as something I can refer back to if things start to feel "off" or "worse". Based on previous data and symptoms, I know that, for me personally, when my blood levels of zinc are within about 5% of or fall below measured blood copper levels, I do not feel as well.
I do agree though that most dietary recommendations are probably based on a standard diet. Regardless of what type of diet the RDAs are based on, I personally do not pay much attention to any of them.
Quote from
Carnivore on July 29, 2022, 3:48 am
How are the optimal levels of minerals, hormones, vitamins etc. in the human body determined?
This is an interesting question that no one knows the answer to. I agree that the body may need different amounts of various vitamins, minerals, etc. depending on diet. I think that other factors like age, sex, toxicity, health history, etc. also play a big role. I try to utilize testing not only to track my progress, but also as something I can refer back to if things start to feel "off" or "worse". Based on previous data and symptoms, I know that, for me personally, when my blood levels of zinc are within about 5% of or fall below measured blood copper levels, I do not feel as well.
I do agree though that most dietary recommendations are probably based on a standard diet. Regardless of what type of diet the RDAs are based on, I personally do not pay much attention to any of them.
Quote from
mmb3664 on August 1, 2022, 6:19 am
@are As is expected, my diet changed over the course of 3+ years, but not necessarily due to time of year or the current season. The primary thing that consistently changed with seasons throughout this journey was time spent outside. I love to tan when the weather is nice, so between May and September, I tend to get a lot more natural vitamin D production. As a side effect of spending more time outside in the hot weather, I imagine I also sweat a lot more than I do outside of those months. I do have an infrared sauna that I like to use throughout the year, but I am not always consistent with its use. As for exercise, my routine stays the same throughout the year.
To summarize, I'd say that during the May - September time frame, I spend a lot more time outside and sweat more overall than I do the other months of the year. Other than that, I cannot think of any other consistent, seasonal variation in my life throughout the vA detox these past few years.
@are As is expected, my diet changed over the course of 3+ years, but not necessarily due to time of year or the current season. The primary thing that consistently changed with seasons throughout this journey was time spent outside. I love to tan when the weather is nice, so between May and September, I tend to get a lot more natural vitamin D production. As a side effect of spending more time outside in the hot weather, I imagine I also sweat a lot more than I do outside of those months. I do have an infrared sauna that I like to use throughout the year, but I am not always consistent with its use. As for exercise, my routine stays the same throughout the year.
To summarize, I'd say that during the May - September time frame, I spend a lot more time outside and sweat more overall than I do the other months of the year. Other than that, I cannot think of any other consistent, seasonal variation in my life throughout the vA detox these past few years.
Quote from
mmb3664 on August 2, 2022, 9:55 am
Quote from
tim on July 9, 2020, 5:56 pm
I've been low vA since Feb 2019. My only serum retinol test was in Feb 2020 which showed 50 mcg/dL. Blood work has shown that my cholesterol and liver enzymes have normalized since going low vA.
@tim-2 Just curious if you have had any follow-up labs since Feb 2020. I imagine you have made a lot of progress in terms of vA depletion over another 2+ years, i.e. since Feb 2020.
Quote from
tim on July 9, 2020, 5:56 pm
I've been low vA since Feb 2019. My only serum retinol test was in Feb 2020 which showed 50 mcg/dL. Blood work has shown that my cholesterol and liver enzymes have normalized since going low vA.
@tim-2 Just curious if you have had any follow-up labs since Feb 2020. I imagine you have made a lot of progress in terms of vA depletion over another 2+ years, i.e. since Feb 2020.
Quote from
tim on August 2, 2022, 4:03 pm
@mmb3664
No I haven't. When I get another test I'll definitely post it. I had two tests in a row that had the same serum retinol level, that's when I realized that depletion was going to take a lot longer than I initially expected. I'm now at 3.5 years low vA but I can tell from my symptoms (recent small flare up of seb derm, I still have an oily scalp and nose) that my serum retinol level still isn't low enough.
It's a great contribution to this forum that you've done so many tests and posted them here. I don't understand how serum retinol just jumps up to 64 like that! Were you sunbathing much prior to that October? I guess the liver must have released large amounts in one go to cause that which does explain cyclical detox symptoms for people on low vA.
@mmb3664
No I haven't. When I get another test I'll definitely post it. I had two tests in a row that had the same serum retinol level, that's when I realized that depletion was going to take a lot longer than I initially expected. I'm now at 3.5 years low vA but I can tell from my symptoms (recent small flare up of seb derm, I still have an oily scalp and nose) that my serum retinol level still isn't low enough.
It's a great contribution to this forum that you've done so many tests and posted them here. I don't understand how serum retinol just jumps up to 64 like that! Were you sunbathing much prior to that October? I guess the liver must have released large amounts in one go to cause that which does explain cyclical detox symptoms for people on low vA.
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Quote from
Jenny on August 3, 2022, 2:09 am
Agreed it’s a great contribution.
@mmb3664 I was wondering if you had been exposed to covid before the 64 reading?
I believe that Anthony Mawson is correct with his association of covid and a retinoid dump. For me covid this time was like a mini hypervitaminosis A attack. Several symptoms came back and then thankfully reduced again. I wonder what my blood test would have shown at that time?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33983857/
Agreed it’s a great contribution.
@mmb3664 I was wondering if you had been exposed to covid before the 64 reading?
I believe that Anthony Mawson is correct with his association of covid and a retinoid dump. For me covid this time was like a mini hypervitaminosis A attack. Several symptoms came back and then thankfully reduced again. I wonder what my blood test would have shown at that time?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33983857/
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Quote from
r on August 3, 2022, 3:01 am
Quote from
Jenny on August 3, 2022, 2:09 am
Agreed it’s a great contribution.
@mmb3664 I was wondering if you had been exposed to covid before the 64 reading?
I believe that Anthony Mawson is correct with his association of covid and a retinoid dump. For me covid this time was like a mini hypervitaminosis A attack. Several symptoms came back and then thankfully reduced again. I wonder what my blood test would have shown at that time?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33983857/
The reverse of it happened to me , during covid I all my symptoms disappeared ( only few minor ones are left ) . But overall 90% of my symptoms have disappeared over last 3 years of vitaminA detox . Maybe I am cured or I am on a verge of getting fully cured .
Only Vitamin A tests would determine my status , couldn't wait to get it done
Quote from
Jenny on August 3, 2022, 2:09 am
Agreed it’s a great contribution.
@mmb3664 I was wondering if you had been exposed to covid before the 64 reading?
I believe that Anthony Mawson is correct with his association of covid and a retinoid dump. For me covid this time was like a mini hypervitaminosis A attack. Several symptoms came back and then thankfully reduced again. I wonder what my blood test would have shown at that time?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33983857/
The reverse of it happened to me , during covid I all my symptoms disappeared ( only few minor ones are left ) . But overall 90% of my symptoms have disappeared over last 3 years of vitaminA detox . Maybe I am cured or I am on a verge of getting fully cured .
Only Vitamin A tests would determine my status , couldn't wait to get it done
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Quote from
tim on August 3, 2022, 3:17 am
Good point @jaj, any cold or flu virus would probably cause elevated levels too.
Good point @jaj, any cold or flu virus would probably cause elevated levels too.
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Quote from
mmb3664 on August 3, 2022, 4:34 am
@jaj and @tim-2 There is nothing I can think of that I can directly relate to the high 64.2 ug/dL reading in October. I may have gotten exposed to COVID or some other virus, but was never symptomatic if that is what happened. I do not know how sensitive the serum vA blood sample can be to error; I think I read somewhere on the forum that if the sample is exposed to light or handled improperly, etc. that the sample can be compromised. Not sure how true that is, but that very high reading could be potentially be some lab-related error and not really reflective of what my blood levels actually were...I will never know! 🙂 It is definitely an outlier in the data though...
@jaj and @tim-2 There is nothing I can think of that I can directly relate to the high 64.2 ug/dL reading in October. I may have gotten exposed to COVID or some other virus, but was never symptomatic if that is what happened. I do not know how sensitive the serum vA blood sample can be to error; I think I read somewhere on the forum that if the sample is exposed to light or handled improperly, etc. that the sample can be compromised. Not sure how true that is, but that very high reading could be potentially be some lab-related error and not really reflective of what my blood levels actually were...I will never know! 🙂 It is definitely an outlier in the data though...
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