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leap7's log

Quote from Ourania on May 6, 2020, 1:40 am

Hi@leap7 Thank you for taking the time to express in detail what is happening to you. It will certainly help a lot of people now and in the future.

I think you are very lucky to have discovered  this Vitamin A problem when you are only 20. First of all it will help you avoid burdening your body with a poison that is quite difficult to eliminate. I am 68 years old and only understood the problem 6 months ago. Most of my life has been lived with a kind of handicap. When you don't know what is wrong, and you are sure something is wrong, a kind of insidious weakness permeates all your decisions and feelings.

The other good news is that it really seems that the younger you are, the faster you get rid of the problem. But I think this timeline extends to before our birth. All my brothers and sisters have the problem, and we lived in different places and circumstances from a tender age, it is clear that our mother was full of vitamin A and gave us a bad start in life.

 

About your face: the shape of the jaws and cheekbones is very dependent on vitamin K, which is lowered by too much vitamin A. So it seems normal that avoiding vitamin A will modify your face. Also this happened to me when I was on Vitamin K (MK') and I was already more than 50 years old. At 20 years of age, you are still growing, even if you do not notice it!

Crying: One of the signs I had of things going downhill was an impossibility to cry. The eyes were not dry, but I had to feelings. You have noticed something few people realize: a heart of stone, or also anhedonia, the impossibility of feeling happy, or a kind of detachment as Grant has noted, all these are a mark of  the destruction done by Vitamin A. Grant says it has gone away for him, you obviously are well on the way with your crying, I wish my heart was tender again and less detached (I am only at 5 1/2 months so there is hope yet).

The eyebrow growth is a very good sign!

Do keep us informed of your progress, please.

Thank you so much for your response. Something that might be relevant is that I was vegan for 2.5 years and vegetarian for maybe 3 years as a teen. I think I might have loaded myself up with A and prevented myself from properly detoxing by not getting enough protein. I think I’ve noticed that after people become vegan for a while, their faces start to change shape. It seems like their faces become less soft and more hard around the edges, and I’ve also seen some vegans’ faces look very bloated. My face was certainly this way as a vegan. It has become less bloated now, but my jaw muscles are still quite prominent. 
I supplemented with Thorne k2 for a bit while on a ray peat inspired diet and started supplementing Thorne k2 again after reading your post. I seemed to feel some pressure on my right cheekbone when I took it, but not anymore. Can you tell me more about the details of your facial change, and what supplement you were using? I’m really interested 🙂 

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Quote from puddleduck on May 6, 2020, 8:10 am

@leap7 Detailed updates are great, thanks for sharing so many of your observations! 🙂 I relate to a lot of what you have written. 

“More emotional - more prone to crying. Also, as a result of being more emotional and thinking clearer, I think, I have been able to reevaluate my relationships and recognize relationships in which I don't really feel valued. Because of this, I've spoken to people close to me about things that they have done that has bothered me.... This has either led to strengthened friendships or caused me to become distant from people/realize someone is not such a great person after all. I'm also able to stand up for myself more, when I used to be someone who would always push emotions down.” 

^ This closely resembles my experience over the past few months. It’s pretty neat how having a bit more mental energy can improve our emotional health.

About the sleep issues—insomnia tends to come up for me more when my body is pulling out the vitamin A more heavily, and so far thiamin seems to help the most. I also take riboflavin, which might be helping also. Someone I spoke with a few months ago reported that B2 improved their sleep on the detox. So B1 and B2 could be worth looking into.

Hope you continue to see positive changes, and thanks again for your post! 😁

Thank you 🙂 It’s comforting to hear that you are experiencing something similar to me. 

something that has crossed my mind though is that, as a former Peater, I sometimes think that my increased emotions could be a negative thing. I seem to have this “ruminating” that I believe Peat attributes to serotonin, in which I make myself sad or angry by thinking about a bad interaction. Some random thought of when I was hurt or felt embarrassed in the past will pop up on me out of the blue. Also, sometimes when ruminating, I felt a lot of rage, and don’t think I dealt with my anger in a good way at all/ felt out of control. However I do feel like I am better at expressing myself now, but am now worried if I am being too harsh. Also, not connecting to people I thought were my friends is a bit frightening and makes me wonder if I’m actually in the wrong. While on a Peat inspired diet, I rarely thought about these situations in which I felt hurt. However, I do feel that while on a Peat inspired diet I  was sometimes annoyingly positive to the point of ignorance or just felt very dull. 

I’m supplementing with B1 now- do you have any good recommendations for a b2 supplement? 

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Quote from Orion on May 6, 2020, 12:19 pm

B1 and B2 seem to be the the deficiencies that the low vitamin A diet can bring about.  Getting the VA out uses them up quickly.

Meat and beans should help, but in the beginning supp'ing with B1 and B2 might be useful.    Allithiamine is also one to try, it gets into cells quicker then regular thiamine HCl.    A low dose Bcomplex could be helpful too.

Thanks for your response:) do you have any recommendations for a b2 supplement?

@leap7 I do not recommend supplementing with K2 or anything really. I think Grant's diet is balanced enough, for several months at least if not forever.

When I was taking K2 it was a pharmaceutical ordered by a doctor in Japan, not a supplement. It filled up my cheekbones and widened my jaw. My face was and has remained very symmetrical with a relaxed look.

Now I do not supplement with anything, except some B1 and B2 sometimes, because I want to give this diet a chance to reach a general balance. Being Vitamin A poisoned means we do not use Vitamin D or Vitamin K as they should be used, this I know in my own feeling. I hope that when there will be less Vitamin A around, the body will work better.

@leap7 For B2 just make sure it is riboflavin and not active B2(Riboflavin 5'-Phosphate).  I would start with few mg's per day and see how you feel, most feel good on B2.   Most B2 supps come as 100mg pills/capsules, so cutting the pill or using small amount of powder will be necessary.   I just use a local brand in the supermarket health section.

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@orion

thanks for your response. Why not riboflavin 5’phosphate? I believe that’s the kind Garrett smith recommends 

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Whatever the type of Riboflavin, make sure it does not see the light of day. It is extremely easily destroyed by light. Wrapping the bottle in foil, for example.

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@leap7 better for your body to activate the B2, then use the active R5P form.   But if you are very unwell, using the active form in the start could be helpful.    Molybdenum and selenium are very important to activate B2, so eating your beans/legumes is important.

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Something I’ve noticed myself doing only since starting the detox is clenching my jaw at night. I don’t do it very hard, but there is still some definite tension. I notice it whenever I wake up for a bit while sleeping. If anyone has any advice on solving this that would be great. I’ve started supplementing with b1 and b2 but don’t see any direct effect, or maybe it’s too soon to tell. 

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Quote from leap7 on May 12, 2020, 12:39 am

Thank you 🙂 It’s comforting to hear that you are experiencing something similar to me. 

something that has crossed my mind though is that, as a former Peater, I sometimes think that my increased emotions could be a negative thing. I seem to have this “ruminating” that I believe Peat attributes to serotonin, in which I make myself sad or angry by thinking about a bad interaction. Some random thought of when I was hurt or felt embarrassed in the past will pop up on me out of the blue. Also, sometimes when ruminating, I felt a lot of rage, and don’t think I dealt with my anger in a good way at all/ felt out of control. However I do feel like I am better at expressing myself now, but am now worried if I am being too harsh. Also, not connecting to people I thought were my friends is a bit frightening and makes me wonder if I’m actually in the wrong. While on a Peat inspired diet, I rarely thought about these situations in which I felt hurt. However, I do feel that while on a Peat inspired diet I  was sometimes annoyingly positive to the point of ignorance or just felt very dull. 

I’m supplementing with B1 now- do you have any good recommendations for a b2 supplement? 

@leap7 Ah, that is insightful! I tend to look at this stuff kind of through my history with bipolar—irritability can be an early warning sign of mania, so if I am feeling more physically irritated or agitated, thats when I think something is out of balance. And yeah, the ruminating thing is one sign of depression. I have not become bipolar again since starting the detox (that was years ago), but I have “revisited” elements of those extreme mood states (especially when I was first starting the detox), which isn't fun!

Some of that, I think, may have a physical cause (thiamin deficiency is apparently related to mental illness, and vitamin A itself seems able to do a lot of harm to the brain, too).

But what you said about feeling “annoyingly positive” could potentially be related to suppressing or disconnecting from emotion. I have a lot of experience with that (unfortunately 😝), and sometimes it can come out later as anger or rage and guilt about feeling “out of control.”

If you’re interested in resources for the emotional/psychological side of health, I really like Kristen Neff (her stuff on self-compassion really helped me) and Daniel Mackler (he has a youtube channel where he talks about the affect difficult childhoods can have on us as adults). Support groups for dealing with abusive/personality disordered individuals have helped me a lot with learning to tell when I am setting an appropriate boundary or over reacting to a situation.

Sometimes it can be difficult to figure out what is physical “noise,” and what is trauma or a relationship or boundary issue that needs to be addressed. But seeing an increase in physical energy and mental clarity can start to make it all more intuitive, at least that has been what I am finding.