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My diabetes type I recovery story
@tiago thanks for posting your bloodwork! Please note, I am not saying you were not restrictive enough, or that you should eat more fiber. I read what you say with great interest, I just struggle to follow some of your conclusions.
It seems to me that you still have relatively high serum retinol levels. The yellow diarrhea sounds like detox to me, @wavy has had the same thing. BUT, I wouldn’t dare telling you anything you have done is wrong, just asking some questions here. Interestingly I also had a fistula operation, 15 years ago, and have been down the accutane track.
Jokes and stories about blind people aside, I think you are colored by your own conclusions, and for some of us being very low VA is still the way to go for some time.
@tiago I dont agree with you at all. I find that idea that we were so healthy in general for 100+ years ago to be a total myth. Ok sure in some ways we were more hardy and some of modern diseases wasnt so prevalent. And for sure the chemicals and stress of modern lives contributes a lot. But from there to postulating good health I find to be a mythical artifact, fueled by Weston A.Price cults. If you look at everything from medical records to skeletal finds, historical descriptions and other sources of medical historical information- especially the analysiz of remains though, you will find that people in general had lots of diseases in the old agricultural societies. Child mortality was really high and to quote an interview with an old man that was born late 1800s (anecdotal illustration, not some sort of proof) he said, well the real tough people was all the ones born before roughly 1850, people are not that sturdy anymore. (This of course coincides with the industrial revolution). ANd then he adds "But of course that's because the ones born at that time who wasnt really tough, simply died!". Yeah. Large parts of the population all over europe had nutritional deficiancies, especially B, zinc and iron. They were prone to infections, had stunted growth and you name it. It's hard to come up with any such actuyally healthy population. It of course sounds exaggerated but the thing is what are you comparing with. Actual good health or just a bit better (maybe!) then now, and more caused by malnutrition then poisons. The general health of populations sank tremendously after the introduction of agriculture world wide with everything from brain shrinkage to tooth decay and diabetes. Im not promoting some sort of carnivore and I eat agricultural products. Im just saying the imagined good health of mediavel farmers is a factoid, not a historical reality. And what do you mean we have adapted. The only real genetic mutations I know of that have been widespread since the neolithic is lactose tolerance and an increased ability to tolerate alcohol in the west, due to people dying without it because of the widespread consumption of this. According to normal genetic theory this is far to short time to expect any significant genetic adaptions.
@inger Well as I dont really use that term of ancestral diet it's hard to tell, but mostly meats(including seafood) and starches. Of course there are huge variations but tubers/roots or other starchy stuff are widely available. And so is some sort of animal flesh. The proportions might vary and their variety in diet LOOKS like its much more varied than modern diets, as f.ex hunter gatherer diets usually have several hundred different plants on their menu. But most of these are in minute amounts. Usually all premodern civilisation have a couple of staple foods, be that rice, tapioca, yams, potatoes or wildgrowing tubers (like with the hazda (well studied example). Also we have archeologcial evidence of butchered animals and tooth enamel analyzis of starchy residues. So it depends largely upon where you lived but it seems to be narrower back in time. Some staple foods and a lot of small addons. Nuts have often been used but thats seasonal, and berries. and probably bugs. There is no known premodern societies that doesnt have any bugs in them, (even inuitt), but they dont make up a significant %of the calories. they seem to always be ruminant animals (and or seafood/fish in coastal/river areas) and starch depending on the climate. It can be 80% starch or 10% but 2 or three foods seem to make up about 85 -90% of calories at least and a lot of the plant use is medicinal. (take 50 herbs that is used and suddenly the diet seems to be very varied). I think a million years of this should be enough to conclude that we have some sort of adaption/preference to this kind of eating, though we cant say for sure.
Quote from Jessica2 on August 2, 2023, 4:24 amDoesn't "you didn't have a VA problem to begin with" sort of imply VA isn't the insidious poison behind most diseases to begin with? So, according to this logic, some people can eat dairy, eggs, and VA vegetables (and possibly supplements) with complete ignorance of the idea that all VA is poison and be totally OK and never have an issue? Sounds like we don't actually believe VA is that bad of a poison.
@jessica2 since you are quoting me: no it doesn’t imply that, there are many toxins out there, and an abbundance of ways to get sick
Hmmm I actually do think that micro evolution had plenty of time to occur in the past, even in a few generations! People who migrated into new places who weren't OK with the regional diet died before they had children or were so unwell that their family didn't prosper. Not really evolution per se, but the family tree got pruned.
In the past, I do agree there was an aspect of "unwell children probably didn't make it past the early years", leading to stronger adult populations. But that was part and parcel of the micro-evolution that led to populations that were adapted to regional food sheds. Weak mothers unable to turn out strong babies, or weak toddlers with upset guts.
That is why I often say that you should see how your own, personal ancestors ate a few generations back. Of course, you might be a mix of several regional diets, confusing the issue. I wish that I never reverted from the naturally low-ish VA diet handed to my grandmother from her old-world German parents. It seems that even though I've also got French genes, that my diet needs are much more Germanic/Northern European. My grandmother, 100% German, was not a mix and ate the way her old-world parents ate and she benefitted, as did several of her siblings. Her parents had 12 children, 11 of whom made it to adulthood through the depression on a mill-worker's salary. 3 were centenarians.
I feel sorry for the untimely death of the vegan blogger mentioned on another thread, because I feel that everyone wants to be that hero who says "hey, look, we've been doing this wrong!" except there is nothing new on this Earth. Could my two germanic great-grandparents give birth to a child who actually needed to live on tropical fruits and seed sprouts? Doubtful. It could happen but it's doubtful. And if tropical fruits was best for that one child, I doubt it would be best for their other 11 children.
My opinion (for what it's worth) is that the most important thing we get from food is calories and the most important thing to avoid is toxins of all kinds. I think that Tiago cut back on some of his toxic load when he read Grant's material and it helped his pancreas heal. Your toxic load is like a bucket, and VA is only one thing going in there. Avoiding VA for a long time might cause you to load the bucket with other toxins, I suppose, and might lead to different new problems. Unless someone is living with Grant, and has his genetic makeup, they might have different results. I think it still remains true that VA goes in the toxic-load bucket. There is no zero-toxin Earthly diet.
When you eat a wider selection of foods, there might be a benefit in that the toxins might be all different. If you just eat one food, perhaps you start having an overload of a specific toxin. However, when you have, say, only 3 foods in your diet your flora can get really good at digesting them. You can rely on your gut to be the same every day. Which is nice. Until you, for some reason, eat outside your norms. Then you suffer. We see this with our pets when they are used to their kibble and someone gives them table foods and they end up with the runs.
It does seem like some need/benefit from daily legumes. A tool for some on this road and not others. Just like being gluten free is a tool some on this road need, and not others. Probably both tools can be temporary in the long run. I see Grant's prison diet also as a tool that can be temporary.
Grant said in his book that his brother who didn't eat all the "healthy" vegetables and drink lots of milk did not have the health problems eventually overwhelmed Grant. I think Vitamin A is a toxin. Your liver can only store so much until problems show up. If you don't eat too much you may be able to live a whole lifetime without problems.
Spinach gets a bad reputation because canned spinach is not very palatable. Greens were only eaten in the spring when they were fresh and not too strong tasting. And people were enjoying the spring sun so perhaps a few greens would not cause too many problems. Also, how did any ancient cultures wash greens like they have to be washed to get rid of sand, etc.? And greens like poke have to be boiled twice to remove the oxalates to a tolerable amount.
Beans do cause changes in gut bacteria and the gas and bloating can be pretty bad. Karen Hurd says the healthier you are the less time it will take to not have gas. It took my husband and me more than a month but it all went away.
What I am thinking about is the enterohepatic circulation and how the vitamin A detox might be unsuccessful by it. When there is not soluble fiber to hinder the reabsorbing of bile.
So I pondered if @tiago s issue could be that this has happened? The symptoms he and his wife got kind of sounded like re-poisoning to me... and the yellow diarrhea that never went away. The gut lining must have been very disturbed from it too.
I am so not an expert on any of this but I am just trying to find connections to try prevent own mistakes........
I also was not suggesting to live off of beans. But to eat them in addition to animal protein. I do eat more than a pound of animal protein every day. And apparently half a cup of beans would give you soluble fiber to already start the healing process. But I of course eat way more because I always exaggerate everything..lol and I am so anxious to heal fast. I know this is not always the wisest approach 😉
Based on your line of thought is a miracle how the Chinese, Roman, Greek, Egyptian, Ottoman, and many other empires have been able to achieve so much with "a shrinking brain", eating grains and VA foods.
"re-poisoning"? With what? Rain drops?
"It seems to me that you still have relatively high serum retinol levels. The yellow diarrhea sounds like detox to me, "
Relatively high to what? What is a "normal" retinol serum level? Zero? And compared with what? The general health status of the person?
Why do you say that a yellow diarrhea is a symptom of VA detox? What is the factual evidence for that? When someone goes to hospital, with clinical VA overdose, is the yellow diarrhea a common symptom of the patient discharging the VA? Based on your idea then all the people on this forum that is detoxing VA (without the magic beans) should have yellow diarrhea, right?
What are your values of retinol? And what is your overall health? How the two correlates? Are your serum levels lowering and your health improving? If yes, good to you and I wish the best recovery.
More and more, all the replies is all about "sounds like, i think that..", but no one has the data to support. In my case, my data shows that retinol serum levels do not correlate with "better overall health".
How many members in this forum have this kind of correlation? Blood serum levels vs. health status?
The true fact, that everyone can confirm lurking the forum is that the VA detox theory is failing for the majority of the members and I do not see any point in digging a bigger hole in my health.
I wish you all a good recovery.
In the meantime I will try to buy some stocks on beans companies. If the trend takes off, beans will become the new "magic food" and I want to earn some easy money.
When you call up the poison control line and tell them that your kid ate the poison berries on the shrub outside, sometimes they tell you NOT to induce vomiting. This is because the toxin hurts you on the way in, then it hurts you wherever it goes, then it hurts again on the way out. I think that is what Henrik means by "re-poisoning".
The yellow runs that people do talk about here are interesting, and gosh it wouldn't be so hard to get them checked for VA would it?
I don't take much stock in "values of retinol" because I think the body controls the levels in the blood and maybe has it's reasons why it lets it be high one day, and low another.
I'm surprised you think the VA detox theory if failing, in my opinion it is one very important aspect of trying to get my "toxic load" down. It certainly isn't my ONLY aspect. The VA theory makes my diet swerve in a certain direction. Back to a more traditionally Northern European 3 square meals a day and not eating the rainbow... diet.
I LOL'd at your bean joke, and it just may be the next up and coming thing.
I used to get goat milk but now raw/organic cow about a half gallon a week. I eat 2 eggs per day. I eat regular grocery store butter in moderation. I eat a serving of cheese a day. I don't do any cream or ice cream, I don't crave it. I'm pickier about what I've let back into my life for veg and fruit. I don't eat the rainbow.
Well, I think I am getting better I've got about 90% of my life back...
I was like 35 years down the wrong lane and you can't just U turn out of that.
I do remember some really odd sensations and changes at the beginning, such as my skin crawling. I'm super glad that didn't go on for years. But it actually did make me think I was on the right track. Sometimes any change is welcome.
It certainly is a hard road trying to figure out what is best, and whether a bad symptom is something you need to endure to get to the other side OR if it is a sign you are doing the wrong thing. I still get pustules here and there. Are they detox? Am I eating something wrong, or something right?
Take the post on the previous page talking about putting up with symptoms from beans for a month... Yikes. Some people who work closely with others might get fired for certain bean side-effects! LOL
Quote from BodeFofinho on August 2, 2023, 8:58 amBased on your line of thought is a miracle how the Chinese, Roman, Greek, Egyptian, Ottoman, and many other empires have been able to achieve so much with "a shrinking brain", eating grains and VA foods.
"re-poisoning"? With what? Rain drops?
I havent claimed higher overall mortality. Its a commonly accepted fact that bransize dimnished and I'd challenge you to prove otherwise. That doesnt mean that kind of diet doesnt have any benefits. The main one being calorie surplus. As long as you can make more children and feed them that way of life will provide the largest populations. There is nothing fringe about my claim here, this is the standard view which I havent seen any faults with.
These statements were made in the context of what we are adapated to and what is " optimal " - not what is most efficient at populating the earth. Optimal here meaning bringing abundant health. I have no idea what you are referring to with re-poisoning.