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Myth: Serum Retinol is not a useful measurement of subclinical VA toxicity
Quote from grapes on June 23, 2025, 1:10 amFor me it's hard to convince a doctor to prescribe such test unfortunately. And knowing that one single test doesn't give the full info it's probably not worth the effort.
How come? If you tell your doctor you have been on a almost zero VA diet for several years; VA being a vitamin that is supposed to be essential for eye-sight and you might die within 3 months if you don't get enough; should he not be worried about your health and test your levels - for his own interest? Convincing my GP of this was the easiest thing I've ever done.
@sand I think he would tell and why you are on low vit A food diet? Eat foods wiht vitamin A end of story.. Here in Czech Rep. iti s very unusual test that only one lab in whole country is doing. No way he would order that test.. Doctors do only basic blood work.. When I had surgery where they removed my damaged vein in the leg due to issues with collagen synthesis I asked the surgeon if they could order ceruloplasmin with copper test. To see if that damage to my leg was due to low bioavailable copper. Do you know what he did? He wrote into the medical report where was the info about that surgery for my GP that I should visit some mental institution. I am not kidding. So what I did was I took that medical report threw it into trash and from that point on I knew that medical system will not help me with any chronic health issues.. Btw it was great move because now I don't have any medical report that I had any surgery. If I gave that report to my GP it would be a problem if I apply for some job and they wanted my records. Once they see some vein issues they don't like to hire people because of that..
@sand Yeah it's a very unusual test and doctors prefer to stick to protocols. Also, when I travel or on social events I eat some vit A foods like cheese. Probably my serum levels have raised since my last test (when it was under the range).
Quote from Jiří on June 22, 2025, 9:55 pm@christian yeah I will post results. For me I had strong detox the first year and I saw my health going better, but now I am afraid that I could be low lol.. I have no desire to eat high vit A foods apart from some watermelon in the summer or something like that, but I really wonder how much is in me still.. How the numbers are doing in your case are they going down? With Andrew I don' know exactly why he got ban, but at some point he was going really crazy about that egg/choline thing. He would spam the forum 24/7 everywhere about it which was somewhat annoying hehe.. He has some facebook page? how are doing people there? I don't follow anyone apart from this forum and also I watch people on lowtoxinforum doing that crazy HG7 protocol. 😀
For years the numbers hardly budged. Only last year did VA drop from 3.0 to 2.51 μmol/L. It was disheartening not to see my numbers drop at all for years. I'm wondering how I'm doing this year.
Yeah, Andrew reached out to Grant for support in moderating the forum. Grant appointed him moderator. Andrew posted a lengthy defense of using eggs for vitamin A detox, which was really an unwise move. He should have been more aware of his role as a moderator and of Grant's conflicting thoughts about using eggs for vitamin A detox. Grant always recommended taking a choline supplement instead. On the other hand, Grant warned against using lactoferrin as a supplement. In any case, I think Andrew pushed the egg narrative too far for Grant's taste. I still believe Andrew shouldn't have been banned. He contributed greatly to the forum and kept it lively.
Andrew founded and moderates a Facebook group that offers an alternative way to detox vitamin A, but I have no idea how the people there are doing. I haven't visited in a while.
It's clear to me by now that the vitamin A detox process takes at least a decade. That's not a good selling point for the prison diet. I've never experienced a honeymoon phase. I've never experienced any profound healing. It's a slow, dreadful process. It probably looks different for someone who starts in their twenties, but if you're in your thirties, your liver has already accumulated quite a lot of vitamin A, especially if you've been eating liver and taking vitamin A supplements for years. With a low vitamin A detox diet, there is only the slow train. I'm not aware of any Shinkansen.
@christian " I'm not aware of any Shinkansen."
I think it is metabolic rate for sure. How well your thyroid, adrenals and liver can function and I think that is also the reason why some people can handle A LOT of vit A and they simply don't have any issues and why somebody like Grant wasn't even on high vit A diet not even taking any supplements and ended up with issues. Simply because there were some bottlenecks in his biochemistry that prevented from metabolizing everything correctly.. So I don't think it will take 10 years for every person. It is highly individual. Look at Paul Saladino. He looks great for his age pounding so much vitamin A from all sources.. But it looks like he has no bottlenecks in his chemistry. So he can simply metabolize it and use it. But will be interesting to see what happens as he gets older. It will be also interesting to watch what will happen with all those carnivore people. Because I don't think they will live into they 90s heh.. I wish I could see what is on the internet 100 years from now. People will watch us what we did now and laugh how clueless we are. 🙂
Quote from Jiří on June 23, 2025, 1:35 pm@christian " I'm not aware of any Shinkansen."
I think it is metabolic rate for sure. How well your thyroid, adrenals and liver can function and I think that is also the reason why some people can handle A LOT of vit A and they simply don't have any issues and why somebody like Grant wasn't even on high vit A diet not even taking any supplements and ended up with issues. Simply because there were some bottlenecks in his biochemistry that prevented from metabolizing everything correctly.. So I don't think it will take 10 years for every person. It is highly individual. Look at Paul Saladino. He looks great for his age pounding so much vitamin A from all sources.. But it looks like he has no bottlenecks in his chemistry. So he can simply metabolize it and use it. But will be interesting to see what happens as he gets older. It will be also interesting to watch what will happen with all those carnivore people. Because I don't think they will live into they 90s heh.. I wish I could see what is on the internet 100 years from now. People will watch us what we did now and laugh how clueless we are. 🙂
Okay, so the mysterious metabolic rate is it? Have you ever tried increasing your metabolic rate with the supplements Ray Peat recommends? Aspirin, coffee, thyroid medication, gelatin, and coconut oil come to mind. Perhaps a low vitamin A diet coupled with some of those "metabolic boosters" could help with a vitamin A detox. I don't know. I'm not opposed to the idea that the metabolic rate is important; it just seems so elusive.
I don't know why Saladino, Danny Roddy, and others can handle all the vitamin A and look great. There are obviously multiple approaches to health.
I found this interesting and amusing thought: Peek into the future and see how those people who followed various diets turned out. How long they lived? How well they functioned at the end of their lives. I guess we won't know until much later.
@christian I had issues with hypothyroidsm even as a kid if I remember how I felt and looked.. So for me everything that can accumulate in the body and become dangerous is potential issue for me like iron, copper, vit A, other metals etc.. and I have hard time speeding my metabolism and I think it is because I am full of metals like copper and iron.. That's why I think my body does best on diet low in hose micronutrients like white meat, rice, some veggies and fruit low in vit A etc..
@christian I have low bile flow that means kidneys have to work really hard, because detox via bile elimination doesn't work well. I would destroy my organs with that protocol by dumping insane amounts of metals into my organs.. I know what I have to fix which is chronic stress. For that I have to move from the place where I live. I know it for years now, but because it is very problematic in my situation find new place to live and job. Unfortunately I was a pussy and never address this root cause of my issue and hide from it by trying to fix myself with supplements or whatever while getting nowhere with my health. So now I have to do it anyways just with less money, worse health. But whatever I deserve this..