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Myth: Serum Retinol is not a useful measurement of subclinical VA toxicity
Jiri, sometimes when I am all in a muddle it is hard for me to see what simple things I could do to help myself. I bet you will sort your living place out. Hang in there!
I often think that where we live is sort of fated and when time comes for you to not be there, change will be easier.
Ideally, I would live in a hut in the woods. I agree that housing free of excess EMF is important. I can also see how constant stress makes it harder to move, change places, and change your job. You're between a rock and a hard place.
@jiri Don't be so hard on yourself! I mean, isn't your life hard enough already? There's no need to beat yourself up. Do what you can. It takes enormous discipline to stick to a bland diet of rice and chicken for years without seeing much improvement in your health. Of course, one can always do more, but ultimately, we're human and limited. I have pushed myself so much in my life, but it hasn't gotten me very far. It just left me exhausted and frustrated. I now wear a T-shirt that says "cozy." (I'm not really, but you get the vibe. :))
Quote from Jiří on June 26, 2025, 12:11 am@christian I have low bile flow that means kidneys have to work really hard, because detox via bile elimination doesn't work well. I would destroy my organs with that protocol by dumping insane amounts of metals into my organs.. I know what I have to fix which is chronic stress. For that I have to move from the place where I live. I know it for years now, but because it is very problematic in my situation find new place to live and job. Unfortunately I was a pussy and never address this root cause of my issue and hide from it by trying to fix myself with supplements or whatever while getting nowhere with my health. So now I have to do it anyways just with less money, worse health. But whatever I deserve this..
Hang in there buddy , I have been there , things are not in our control . So lets float instead to trying to grab air
Quote from lil chick on December 23, 2020, 7:16 amI was thinking about @are and her serum levels and the detox path in general yesterday.
This idea came to me that one of the reasons WHY this process is so long is because the blood must not ever be overloaded with VA. It would be so harmful. And that is probably why it gets pushed out of the skin (in flakes and papules and oils and sebum) and out of the breath as well, in addition to the routes we normally think of (like feces and urine). Because probably there is a very finite limit to how much VA can be pushed anywhere at any time.
And so, I think that it won't be a surprise for serum VA levels to NOT fall precipitously suddenly or soon...after adopting a lowered VA diet. And if you are still having detox symptoms, it isn't surprising for it to NOT fall precipitously.
Then I tried to come up with a visualization of what is going on. Let's say you want to know the population of a town. Can you tell it by counting people walking on elm street at a certain time of day? No, of course you can't.
The body normally would put it's population of VA into the liver, and we, the overloaded, for whatever reason, have started storing VA here and there around that body as well.
Another metaphor that I can think of is the magazine hoarder. For a long time, he had a room that he devoted to his magazines. Eventually his collection rose to the ceiling and blocked the doorway. So he started storing the magazines in closets and attics and the cellar. He knows he can't have magazines blocking his halls, kitchen and bath or normal living becomes onerous. If he is feeling well, he can take a stack of magazines out to the curb and put them in his recycle bin, but if he tries to take too many he throws his back out. He might, out of desperation, ditch small stacks out the windows of his house, ruining it's esthetics, but that is what he sometimes resorts to. He can throw one magazine in his fireplace at a time, but any more than that will put out the fire. And this is when he is feeling good and sane. If he is feeling bad, he might not get rid of any. Or he might just move it from room to room, not making any headway. You can NOT tell how many magazines he has under his roof... by looking at his hallway.
Magazine hoarder is an excellent analogy on toxin hoarding. Both explain addictive behavior as well.
Quote from Hermes on June 23, 2025, 12:49 pmQuote from Jiří on June 22, 2025, 9:55 pm@christian yeah I will post results. For me I had strong detox the first year and I saw my health going better, but now I am afraid that I could be low lol.. I have no desire to eat high vit A foods apart from some watermelon in the summer or something like that, but I really wonder how much is in me still.. How the numbers are doing in your case are they going down? With Andrew I don' know exactly why he got ban, but at some point he was going really crazy about that egg/choline thing. He would spam the forum 24/7 everywhere about it which was somewhat annoying hehe.. He has some facebook page? how are doing people there? I don't follow anyone apart from this forum and also I watch people on lowtoxinforum doing that crazy HG7 protocol.
For years the numbers hardly budged. Only last year did VA drop from 3.0 to 2.51 μmol/L. It was disheartening not to see my numbers drop at all for years. I'm wondering how I'm doing this year.
Yeah, Andrew reached out to Grant for support in moderating the forum. Grant appointed him moderator. Andrew posted a lengthy defense of using eggs for vitamin A detox, which was really an unwise move. He should have been more aware of his role as a moderator and of Grant's conflicting thoughts about using eggs for vitamin A detox. Grant always recommended taking a choline supplement instead. On the other hand, Grant warned against using lactoferrin as a supplement. In any case, I think Andrew pushed the egg narrative too far for Grant's taste. I still believe Andrew shouldn't have been banned. He contributed greatly to the forum and kept it lively.
Andrew founded and moderates a Facebook group that offers an alternative way to detox vitamin A, but I have no idea how the people there are doing. I haven't visited in a while.
It's clear to me by now that the vitamin A detox process takes at least a decade. That's not a good selling point for the prison diet. I've never experienced a honeymoon phase. I've never experienced any profound healing. It's a slow, dreadful process. It probably looks different for someone who starts in their twenties, but if you're in your thirties, your liver has already accumulated quite a lot of vitamin A, especially if you've been eating liver and taking vitamin A supplements for years. With a low vitamin A detox diet, there is only the slow train. I'm not aware of any Shinkansen.
This last point on Andrew's post might have had something to do with it. Either way, Grant explained it well in that thread. If nothing else it might be considered bad faith to contradict the main premise of the blog (that vitamin A is a toxin not a nutrient) and flat out state that thinking retinoids are toxic is a mental illness. Makes one wonder if Andrew read any of Grant's books or blog posts. It comes off as gaslighting at best. Gaslighting about gaslighting at that.
https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/what-can-go-wrong-with-eating-eggs/
What can go wrong with eating eggs ? – Discussion – Ideas, Concepts, and Observations
17. A possibility here that has emerged from nervous system calming work programmes. If someone is told repeatedly that a certain food is a POISON then it is possible that the subconscious will cause a reaction to that food due to the belief. This is a known phenomenon. This could be a highly significant factor for some people. If so we need to address this. Using the term poison for something contained in most food is not helpful in any way (or indeed accurate). Please ignore the poison rhetoric and return to a healthier relationship with food.
Quote from Jiří on June 26, 2025, 12:11 am@christian I have low bile flow that means kidneys have to work really hard, because detox via bile elimination doesn't work well. I would destroy my organs with that protocol by dumping insane amounts of metals into my organs.. I know what I have to fix which is chronic stress. For that I have to move from the place where I live. I know it for years now, but because it is very problematic in my situation find new place to live and job. Unfortunately I was a pussy and never address this root cause of my issue and hide from it by trying to fix myself with supplements or whatever while getting nowhere with my health. So now I have to do it anyways just with less money, worse health. But whatever I deserve this..
None of us deserve this Jiri. Most of us are in this bind too. All we can do are the tiny steps to improve that we can reach. Been in our current house 34 years. Mold was a real problem decades ago. Still working on it. Every little improvement helps. First step was regrading the yard to make water flow away from the foundation. Second was to replace and extend the roof out past the walls. These were things we did when we were young, working and had money.
Next month will rent a concrete breaker to cut a trench across our driveway to put a drain in. Cheap but alot of labor. Each thing we do gets house a bit drier. We and our dogs get a bit less sick. If we had the money, we would buy a new place, pay contractors to fix this one and rent one of the two places and live in the healthier one. Until then, fans run constantly pulling clean air in and dirty air out of the crawl space. We all do the best we can with what we got.
Keep on man.