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Niacin
I don't like taking the niacin many times a day with food. It gives me basically very very mild flush but I have it all the time.. So I will try to take it once a day 100mg pill on empty stomach. I have crazy flush from it. When the flush is over I will get cold, but I hack that by going into my home made near infrared sauna to warm up.. I want to find out if it true that the flush will be weaker over time. But for now it is really insane. Wonder what it tells about my body when the flush is crazy strong with only 100mg? I mean my face and neck and upper back, chest, stomach and arms and legs are completely red for like 20 minutes.. I don't understand how can someone take 1000mg. That would probably kill me lol..
@alexm I wonder if that niacin flush is huge histamine release? That would be really bad because it depletes amino acids like histidine which is needed for histamine production and also like stomach acid production and also it will deplete all the cofactors that are needed to break down histamine with DAO enzyme. So a lot of bioavailable copper will be used up as well? Because I have some allergy symptoms like itchy, runny nose, irritated eyes.. Do you think it is from high histamine low DAO enzyme or it can be some detox from niacin? I think because I have INSANE flushes from just 100mg it looks like I am running low with DAO enzyme due to low bioavalable copper. So keeping doing this niacin thing can really hurt me over time..
So I did some reading and it really looks like that flush is huge histamine release and the reason why the flush is less stronger over time is because histamine was depleted.. I don't see how it is good for the body? So obviously this niacin flush has to deplete micronutrients that are needed to make histamine and also to break down histamine.. I am done with niacin for now.. Will see if Smith and his people will keep taking it..
That is so wild about getting a flush from chicken breasts! Wow. Crazy stuff. But 20 mg is above the RDA, eh?
I had been taking between 30 mg to 100 mg of niacin daily maximum daily, often skipping a day or two in between doses, since December. It would cause flushing for me, but super mild...except once in late January, on the day following a rare restaurant meal outing where I had eaten food containing oil and a moderate amount of beta carotene, I turned entirely bright red for 20 minutes like @jiri, and was painfully tingly and hot, as if I’d applied undiluted essential oil of peppermint everywhere.
Shortly after that I stopped taking it, and then I read this:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/02/240219130657.htm
- “Researchers have identified a new pathway that contributes to cardiovascular disease associated with high levels of niacin, a common B vitamin previously recommended to lower cholesterol. The team discovered a link between 4PY, a breakdown product from excess niacin, and heart disease. Higher circulating levels of 4PY were strongly associated with development of heart attack, stroke and other adverse cardiac events in large-scale clinical studies. The researchers also showed in preclinical studies that 4PY directly triggers vascular inflammation which damages blood vessels and can lead to atherosclerosis over time.”
Uhhhh...I’ve decided I’m done experimenting with niacin supplements. 😐
@jiri, I took some whey in 2023 and realized it has quite a bit of vitamin A according to cronometer at least. The screenshot is a of a 20g serving of the brand I used. I opted to switch to organic brown rice protein because I love adding it to my oatmeal breakfast. My dietary protein/carb/fat macro breakdown seems to matter for blood glucose regulation. Just a bowl of oatmeal without protein will send me into reactive hypoglycemia every single time unfortunately. I’m thinking that might be part of the reason my blood A levels increased on my last test in December. Forgive me if this isn’t of concern to you!
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Quote from puddleduck on March 17, 2024, 2:42 amThat is so wild about getting a flush from chicken breasts! Wow. Crazy stuff. But 20 mg is above the RDA, eh?
I had been taking between 30 mg to 100 mg of niacin daily maximum daily, often skipping a day or two in between doses, since December. It would cause flushing for me, but super mild...except once in late January, on the day following a rare restaurant meal outing where I had eaten food containing oil and a moderate amount of beta carotene, I turned entirely bright red for 20 minutes like @jiri, and was painfully tingly and hot, as if I’d applied undiluted essential oil of peppermint everywhere.
Shortly after that I stopped taking it, and then I read this:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/02/240219130657.htm
- “Researchers have identified a new pathway that contributes to cardiovascular disease associated with high levels of niacin, a common B vitamin previously recommended to lower cholesterol. The team discovered a link between 4PY, a breakdown product from excess niacin, and heart disease. Higher circulating levels of 4PY were strongly associated with development of heart attack, stroke and other adverse cardiac events in large-scale clinical studies. The researchers also showed in preclinical studies that 4PY directly triggers vascular inflammation which damages blood vessels and can lead to atherosclerosis over time.”
Uhhhh...I’ve decided I’m done experimenting with niacin supplements. 😐
Oh my.. this is why I dont take supplements anymore, it is so much we dont know and they could really mess one up in the long run. It feels so freeing to be off them.
Quote from Bella on March 17, 2024, 3:06 am@jiri, I took some whey in 2023 and realized it has quite a bit of vitamin A according to cronometer at least. The screenshot is a of a 20g serving of the brand I used. I opted to switch to organic brown rice protein because I love adding it to my oatmeal breakfast. My dietary protein/carb/fat macro breakdown seems to matter for blood glucose regulation. Just a bowl of oatmeal without protein will send me into reactive hypoglycemia every single time unfortunately. I’m thinking that might be part of the reason my blood A levels increased on my last test in December. Forgive me if this isn’t of concern to you!
SorrY, but no way 20g of whey has 35% of RDA for vit A.. It must ve added there. Look up to any big nutrition calculator. Whey has basically no vit A..
Quote from puddleduck on March 17, 2024, 2:42 amThat is so wild about getting a flush from chicken breasts! Wow. Crazy stuff. But 20 mg is above the RDA, eh?
I had been taking between 30 mg to 100 mg of niacin daily maximum daily, often skipping a day or two in between doses, since December. It would cause flushing for me, but super mild...except once in late January, on the day following a rare restaurant meal outing where I had eaten food containing oil and a moderate amount of beta carotene, I turned entirely bright red for 20 minutes like @jiri, and was painfully tingly and hot, as if I’d applied undiluted essential oil of peppermint everywhere.
Shortly after that I stopped taking it, and then I read this:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/02/240219130657.htm
- “Researchers have identified a new pathway that contributes to cardiovascular disease associated with high levels of niacin, a common B vitamin previously recommended to lower cholesterol. The team discovered a link between 4PY, a breakdown product from excess niacin, and heart disease. Higher circulating levels of 4PY were strongly associated with development of heart attack, stroke and other adverse cardiac events in large-scale clinical studies. The researchers also showed in preclinical studies that 4PY directly triggers vascular inflammation which damages blood vessels and can lead to atherosclerosis over time.”
Uhhhh...I’ve decided I’m done experimenting with niacin supplements. 😐
There is difference in Niacin types like nicotinic acid or niacinamide. People use grams of flush nicotinic acid type of niacin to actually rešerše plague. It lowers LDL, Lpa and cholesterol a increases HDL. The problem is that it can deplete methyl groups. Thats why it should be taken with other B vitaminy, betaine etc... I think in my case it depletes something what is already low in my body. Thats why I don't feel good on it..
Yeah, I’m an over-methylator it seems, so I think that’s why I generally responded positively to niacin. Do you think your overall pattern is under-methylation @jiri?
This is super new research on B3, and I’m not sure if they’ve determined yet whether or not one type is necessarily safer than another. But it sounds like earlier research on using B3 for lowering LDL isn’t entirely positive (from the article I linked in my previous post):
The new findings also might help explain why niacin is no longer a go-to treatment for lowering cholesterol. Niacin was one of the first treatments prescribed to lower LDL or "bad" cholesterol. However, eventually niacin showed to be less effective than other cholesterol-lowering drugs and was associated with other negative effects and higher mortality rates in previous research.
"Niacin's effects have always been somewhat of a paradox," Dr. Hazen said. "Despite niacin lowering of cholesterol, the clinical benefits have always been less than anticipated based on the degree of LDL reduction. This led to the idea that excess niacin caused unclear adverse effects that partially counteracted the benefits of LDL lowering. We believe our findings help explain this paradox. This illustrates why investigating residual cardiovascular risk is so critical; we learn so much more than what we set out to find."
The study authors note that long-term investigations are needed to assess the effect of chronic elevation of 4PY levels on atherosclerosis and other phenotypes.
The research is part of Dr. Hazen's ongoing investigation into factors that contribute to residual cardiovascular risk. His team follows patients over time and collects blood samples to find chemical signatures that can predict the development of heart disease. He has made pioneering discoveries in atherosclerosis and inflammatory disease research, including the seminal discovery linking gut microbial pathways to cardiovascular disease and metabolic diseases.
Quote from puddleduck on March 17, 2024, 4:29 amYeah, I’m an over-methylator it seems, so I think that’s why I generally responded positively to niacin. Do you think your overall pattern is under-methylation @jiri?
This is super new research on B3, and I’m not sure if they’ve determined yet whether or not one type is necessarily safer than another. But it sounds like earlier research on using B3 for lowering LDL isn’t entirely positive (from the article I linked in my previous post):
The new findings also might help explain why niacin is no longer a go-to treatment for lowering cholesterol. Niacin was one of the first treatments prescribed to lower LDL or "bad" cholesterol. However, eventually niacin showed to be less effective than other cholesterol-lowering drugs and was associated with other negative effects and higher mortality rates in previous research.
"Niacin's effects have always been somewhat of a paradox," Dr. Hazen said. "Despite niacin lowering of cholesterol, the clinical benefits have always been less than anticipated based on the degree of LDL reduction. This led to the idea that excess niacin caused unclear adverse effects that partially counteracted the benefits of LDL lowering. We believe our findings help explain this paradox. This illustrates why investigating residual cardiovascular risk is so critical; we learn so much more than what we set out to find."
The study authors note that long-term investigations are needed to assess the effect of chronic elevation of 4PY levels on atherosclerosis and other phenotypes.
The research is part of Dr. Hazen's ongoing investigation into factors that contribute to residual cardiovascular risk. His team follows patients over time and collects blood samples to find chemical signatures that can predict the development of heart disease. He has made pioneering discoveries in atherosclerosis and inflammatory disease research, including the seminal discovery linking gut microbial pathways to cardiovascular disease and metabolic diseases.
Like I Said it is mainstream BS and like I Said they don't use nicotinic acid the only safe and effective form of B3 because people dont like the flush.. Nicotinic acid is cheap and cant be patentet. And it is Very effective. Do some reading on flush niacin it goes back many decades of people fixing lipid panel and heart disease with it..
Quote from puddleduck on March 17, 2024, 4:29 amYeah, I’m an over-methylator it seems, so I think that’s why I generally responded positively to niacin. Do you think your overall pattern is under-methylation @jiri?
Any other reason to believe why you may be an over-methylator?