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Orion Log

Gotcha! Makes sense, @orion

What an interesting reaction to the pectin. I wonder what’s causing that.

I’ve been thinking of switching to beef/rice x3 daily as well (those are the foods I like/crave the most), but it’s not super feasible for me right now.

Anyway, thanks for the updates! It’s good to hear things are going well for you, overall.  🙂

Quote from Orion on November 30, 2019, 1:07 pm

Over one year very low VA.   Still having skin issues, mainly breakouts, oily, and flakiness, but these symptoms are very reduced, feel like I am 50% healed.

One thing that continues to impress me, is the removal of colorization in my skin and especially my eyes.  My irises continue to return to brilliant blue.  Slowly the yellowish/brownish pigment, assuming retinoids are leaving the skin and eyes.  The color in the iris moves from the center of the iris towards the pupil and sclera, clearing out in the middle first.  There is just pigment hanging on near the pupil and sclera now, probably 6 months til completely blue again.

Second issues is sleep, I am well rested, but still cannot do a 8hr length, 6hrs before waking usually, some nights waking twice.  If this ever returns to normal, I will buy a round for the entire forum 🙂

@orion You're coming up on 2 years on low VA (unless you gave up). How is your progress going?

Quote from Josh on November 9, 2020, 4:17 am

@orion You're coming up on 2 years on low VA (unless you gave up). How is your progress going?


Hey @josh thanks for checking in,  I made it to two years on Nov 6th.  Been meaning to add an update.

Healing stills continues, but I did extreme high VA diet and supplements before I started this, so I am in this for the long haul.  Will commit at least another 2yrs to very low VA intake.

Most my issues improve, skin, digestion, sleep, energy, mental outlook,  but it moves in a agonizingly slow path forward.

Only issue with no improvement is hair shedding, @tim-2 has pointed to high circulated retinoic acids being involved, and I no doubt have elevated levels due to excretion, as I still get oily face/scalp, another high level symptom.  Going to experiment with anti Malassezia yeast; hydrogen peroxide and Nizoral, see if these help.  This yeast loves sebum, and hair shedding it thought to be a side effect of the yeast on the follicle.

Quote from Orion on November 30, 2019, 3:25 pm

Oh @puddleduck I started taking apple pectin for the last week, about 4grams total spread out the day, it seems to give my adrenaline reactions, cold wet feet, some night sweats, and more hungry...  will continue until the bottle is done. 

I was eating Smucker’s fruit spread every afternoon on a rice cake.  It contains a lot of pectin.  About a month ago I quit the fruit spread and have used honey.  I feel better, too, less hungry, not waking in the night as much, and better fasting blood sugar.  

Hi @eio I have been trying to minimize pectin lately too, been using maple syrup in its place.  Mixing things up is probably good once in awhile.

@orion @eio

Orion, thanks for posting an update. Happy to hear about improvement; sorry for the slow pace. Would you recommend this diet to other people who have been "damaged" by Accutane? 

I'm curious if you have signed up for Garrett Smith's program. He originally recommended Pectin but has since superseded that recommendation with other forms of soluble fiber. 

He also has a lot to say about the methanol content of canned and bottled fruits and how that fits into the puzzle.

On the social network at his MightyNetworks site, he recently gave advice to someone to use biotin for thinning hair (but not in high doses).

The detox program is $60 for lifetime access and in my opinion it is an excellent value, not just because of all the great information and advice, but also because you can learn a lot from the other people in the network who freely share their advice and experiences and low VA recipes. 

Wishing you continued improvement!

Thanks for the update Orion!  I was just thinking I need to give my 18 month update. 

Yes, I feel for what you say about "agonizingly slow"... very well put!

sigh, I'm glad Josh mentioned the Dr. Smith thing, it's a path I haven't explored, we'll see... I still continue in my own lackadaisical version of lowered VA...

Quote from Josh on November 10, 2020, 1:45 am

@orion @eio

Orion, thanks for posting an update. Happy to hear about improvement; sorry for the slow pace. Would you recommend this diet to other people who have been "damaged" by Accutane? 

I'm curious if you have signed up for Garrett Smith's program. He originally recommended Pectin but has since superseded that recommendation with other forms of soluble fiber. 


@josh I would recommend to accutane users, but to me it seems there will be a lot more investigation and experimentation needed to figure out what is really happening.

I am on Garrett's forum as well, been following him long before the VA discoveries.

@orion I don't know how to send PM here and you don't have email. So I will post this here and pls copy this comment from me about copper into this thread. thx  https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/copper-toxicity-deficiency-paradox-how-to-treat.37311/  


Don Quixote I assume you have also symptoms of "chronic fatigue/adrenal fatigue" ? Because you need good adrenal function for ceruloplasmin synthesis in the liver.. Once your liver can't make ceruloplasmin copper will stay in the liver, because it can't float free in the blood unbound to transport protein. It would cause crazy oxidative damage.. That is the reason why you have copper deficiency symptoms. You have plenty in the liver. But without ceruloplasmin it is useless.. Now you had high copper in hair test. That is called copper dump. The body dumped copper to the blood.(usually when you push the body with exercise, sauna, desiccated adrenal supplement etc.) You did hair test after that and it showed high copper... If you did blood test during that copper dump it would show crazy high free copper, because most likely only copper increased without ceruloplasmin.. You can feel when you are experiencing copper dump(high copper in the blood) you have a lot of nervous energy, crazy racing mind, increase in blood pressure, heart rate maybe some digestive issues, more acne, redness, depression, impulsiveness, anger.. Once the copper drops you will feel exhausted more than before the dump.. You can confirm this with another blood test for serum copper.. I did blood tests many times and always it is like I just described.. With supplements like you said taking zinc, vit C, molybdenum, chromium etc.. when you have low copper in the blood and a lot of deficiency symptoms is a bad idea. You should have good amount of zinc from meat, keep copper intake lower. For sure no more than 2mg a day and when you experience dump and you will see high serum copper you can take some zinc like 30mg a day and also vit C 2-4g maybe 200mcg of molybdenum. That will lower that free damaging copper faster.. But ultimately you need to probably change your life style. Keep stress low. So your body will be able to make more ceruloplasmin and start using all that stored copper... It itakes time and change in life style. You can't fix it instantly with pills or hormones like people on this forum think.. Now I don't think that Ray Peat style is good for you. I was "Peating" and I almost died from copper and vit A toxicity.. Copper is strong neurostimulant and often it is the reason why you can't make more ceruloplasmin, because your adrenals are depleted due to chronic stimulation from this metal and if you add also sugar, cocoa, coffee even thyroid and other things. You will go down hill pretty fast like a lot of people who were on this forum and now they are gone... Btw the reason why mostly female have issues with copper metabolism, because estrogen retains copper in the body and once there is enough copper that is constantly depleting adrenals which lowers ceruloplasmin it is very hard to reverse this and also estrogen causes issues with bile flow/production and for excess copper is bile the main way out of the body... When the person doesn't understand what is going on. Most people see copper deficiency symptoms and start eating/taking even more copper. Which makes it even worse.. I can't post here, but I read this forum and I see that there is still a lot of confusion about copper metabolism.. So when I saw comments like "check if you don't have Wilson disease" etc.. I needed to react.. Thx to Orion from ggenereux blog...

@jiri copied the post to RPF