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Retinol in eggs and dairy
"Therefore, it is a toxin, and only a toxin."
@ggenereux2014 I think you have a major bias towards this view because of your own experience with your Low Vitamin A experiment. That doesn't mean it is "only a toxin" though.
What about all the things which would alter the proper metabolism of Vitamin A, these are things you have hardly mentioned or explored as you are so hyper focused on the idea of Vitamin A being only a toxin.
Eg: Glyphosate or other chemicals impairing Vitamin A metabolism leading to the build up of harmful levels
ALDH inhibition from species of bacteria, mold , yeasts that produce acetalaldehyde which inhibits ALDH and there a lot of common species that are acetalaldehyde producers. There are other species of bacteria, fungi, mold that separately produce ethanol and this would cause low NAD levels.
IFN Gamma activity inhibiting the NAD+ redox causing low NAD+ levels, and you need NAD+ for ALDH to work
Any Heavy Metal toxicity impairing energy metabolism, liver function and Vitamin A metabolism
Any Micronutrient deficiency magnesium, iron, molybdenum, copper, zinc, selenium, manganese, lithium, potassium, calcium, b vits
Toxicities in copper and iron can cause a functional deficiency of these minerals, Iron deficiency impairs the mobilisation of vitamin A from the liver
Low Thyroid function as thyroid hormone depletes Vitamin A stores as thyroid hormone increases the production of retinoic acid to supply ceruloplasmin
Being a Slow oxidiser (metabolic type) on a HTMA test (80-85% of adults are slow oxidisers) this means reduced thyroid and adrenal gland activity which means your metabolic rate is lower and you burn through Vitamins and Minerals at a slower rate which can lead to accumulation of things like Vitamin A, copper, iron, calcium in harmful amounts.
Choline deficiency
Dysregulated Gut microbiome causing altered FXR expression - FXR regulates Vitamin A storage
Genetic Mutations in ALDH, ADH , CYP26 genes (CYP26A1, CYP26B1, and CYP26C1)
Quote from Pawel on November 23, 2023, 8:48 am@jessica2
Well, no wonder. Starches are very obesogenic as they structurally raise insulin. I hope you know what you are doing with these seed oils. I am not touching any of these.
Sure that's why when half of the earths population was eating starches like rice as main source of calories are very lean right.. Look at high carb, low fat vegans. They are skin and bones.. Starches are far from "obesogenic". THe problem is when you are eating starches for energy and a lot of fat on top of that. What you think that human body can do with all that extra dietary fat if energy is covered by starches? Nothing the body will store 99% of them as body fat.. But again I said it many times if you are not over consuming calories you will not get fat even on mixed diet of starches with fats. I was doing that 10+ years during my bodybuilding days. Had no issues burning fat on rice, oats, potatoes heavy diet with good amount of fats as well. Because I was simply burning more calories than I was consuming. SImple as that. I agree with seed oils. I am not touching them.
To add to what you are saying something I find interesting is that hookworm infection as is commonly seen in African countries significantly depletes vitamin A to an extent that is disproportionate to the amount of blood the helminths consume. I think this may partly explain how hookworm therapy (controlled Necator Americanus infection) can improve autoimmune conditions.
My understanding as to how infection depletes vitamin A is that higher than normal amounts of retinoic acid are locally synthesized and catabolised at areas of infection as part of the immune response in retinoic acid's established role as a signalling molecule. Yep and some additional roles of retinoic acid in the immune response to what you mentioned appear to be the inhibition of interleukin-22 and nitric oxide synthase synthesis and the promotion of tumor necrosis factor alpha synthesis.
Quote from AlexM on November 23, 2023, 11:17 am"Therefore, it is a toxin, and only a toxin."
@ggenereux2014 I think you have a major bias towards this view because of your own experience with your Low Vitamin A experiment. That doesn't mean it is "only a toxin" though.
Well, correct. However, I do entertain the possibility that we underappreciate @ggenereux2014's alleged over 6 years of research on the topic. He most probably knows more about it than we do. This could be solved, by Grant's higher activity on the forum, but I understand we are all not available all the times.
@jessica2
I for one don't think there is enough definitive evidence to reject moderate amounts of it in foods like eggs and dairy (unfortified of course) or greens or fruits to stop eating those foods in the name of health, if these foods present no issues otherwise for you.
Butter consumption before I began a low vA diet caused no apparent issue for me yet I've been strictly eating a low vA diet for almost 5 years and my health has incrementally improved during that time.
Most people have Hypervitaminosis A by middle age. Dairy containing a significant amount of milk fat such as butter, cheese, cream and whole milk may be one of the most important foods for many to significantly restrict in the diet.
Dairy is the only food group that is evolutionarily discordant and didn't exist before agriculture. Lactose and galactose are unsuited for adult humans and casein and even worse BCM7 are problematic. It's also high in a range of hormones that can negatively effect our physiology. It's a good source of riboflavin and calcium though and was a crucial source of iodine in the past. I think that consumed in moderation yoghurt, milk and lower fat ice cream are important sources of calcium for children and adolescents but that adults (with the exception of pregnant and lactating women) may be best off significantly restricting (not completely avoiding) all dairy intake.
@pawel He knows more about the toxic effects that it can have, but he has hardly looked into most of the reasons that I previously mentioned which could be impairing the correct metabolism and catabolism of Vitamin A and metabolites apart from glyphosate.
Also I was watching the documentary blue zones where they visit the places in the world where people live the longest, in the Okinawa episode they were looking into which food was responsible for their increased longevity and they discovered that the brightly purple fleshed sweet potatoes was the most commonly and widely consumed food out of all the foods for the Okinawan population. These have a fair amount of Vitamin A carotenoids and probably more than google states as they only usually account for the beta carotene values and not the other carotenoids. If Vitamin A is so toxic why is this the most commonly consumed food in Okinawa where they have the longest living people, I know their is a different mechanism for pro vitamin A carotenoids and we store them but they all eventually leave the body as retinoic acid. I also developed my Vitamin A toxicity from carotenoids and not from pre formed Vitamin A.
Quote from AlexM on November 24, 2023, 4:30 am@pawel He knows more about the toxic effects that it can have, but he has hardly looked into most of the reasons that I previously mentioned which could be impairing the correct metabolism and catabolism of Vitamin A and metabolites apart from glyphosate.
Also I was watching the documentary blue zones where they visit the places in the world where people live the longest, in the Okinawa episode they were looking into which food was responsible for their increased longevity and they discovered that the brightly purple fleshed sweet potatoes was the most commonly and widely consumed food out of all the foods for the Okinawan population. These have a fair amount of Vitamin A carotenoids and probably more than google states as they only usually account for the beta carotene values and not the other carotenoids. If Vitamin A is so toxic why is this the most commonly consumed food in Okinawa where they have the longest living people, I know their is a different mechanism for pro vitamin A carotenoids and we store them but they all eventually leave the body as retinoic acid. I also developed my Vitamin A toxicity from carotenoids and not from pre formed Vitamin A.
I have read carotenoid conversion to vitamin A is genetically dependent. It differs a lot. So maybe thats why someone get issues, other not? Maybe Okinawans were genetically adapted to sweet potatoes. If it then is true that they had so much of them. Everything needs to be questioned, so many lies out there.
I am trying some goat milk again heh.. Now I need to go slow. I always start drinking it like glass at the time. So obviously I had issues with digestion.. Now I will drink just 2-3 sips at a time and no more than 300ml per day and will see if I notice any negatives like bloating, gas or acne.. I simply feel like without good quality dairy I don't have balanced diet and I feel like my teeth and spine have hard time.. Calcium supplements don't feel good.. I heard so many good things about goat milk remineralizing teeth and bones... It really has the perfect mix of micro nutrients for healthy teeth and bones.. I will simply treat it as superfood. It will be great to have something to sip on when I will go around the fridge. Drinking just water does nothing for me and I feel horrible after unless I put salt and sugar into the water it does nothing positive just deludes and flushes electrolytes from the body.. Having big glass for a meal doesn't work for me. I tried that like 20 times heh, but I think just sipping between the meals can work.. Will see.. 😀
Quote from Jiří on November 24, 2023, 9:14 amI am trying some goat milk again heh.. Now I need to go slow. I always start drinking it like glass at the time. So obviously I had issues with digestion.. Now I will drink just 2-3 sips at a time and no more than 300ml per day and will see if I notice any negatives like bloating, gas or acne.. I simply feel like without good quality dairy I don't have balanced diet and I feel like my teeth and spine have hard time.. Calcium supplements don't feel good.. I heard so many good things about goat milk remineralizing teeth and bones... It really has the perfect mix of micro nutrients for healthy teeth and bones.. I will simply treat it as superfood. It will be great to have something to sip on when I will go around the fridge. Drinking just water does nothing for me and I feel horrible after unless I put salt and sugar into the water it does nothing positive just deludes and flushes electrolytes from the body.. Having big glass for a meal doesn't work for me. I tried that like 20 times heh, but I think just sipping between the meals can work.. Will see.. 😀
my sister has a goat and she gave me raw goat milk, raw goat milk yoghurt and cheese not long ago. I ate and drank it all in 2 days lol its just so delicious. You need to get a goat! But I have heard goat milk is higher in vitamin A... I didnt notice anything bad from that 2 days binge though. But who knows what would have happened if I had it every day for years. That said I have never felt anything bad from raw milk products. Go figure.
@inger yes goat milk has more vit A, but it is still not that much if my diet is basically zero animal or plant vit A.. I have issues with soft nails, transparent teeth, hard to maintain good posture etc.. and if I look at micronutrient profile of my diet which is mostly starch and meat it is clear to me that it is unbalanced.. But if I add lik 500ml of goat milk that nutritional profile looks much better.. I think if we consume vit A it should come from dairy and eggs. Because they are loaded with things like B2, choline, biotin, K2 etc.. and they are not that high in vit A.. In my case dairy and eggs were the last culprits for vit A toxicity and I think it is the case for most people. The problems begins once you start eating liver, high beta carotene plants like juicing carrots lol.. Taking supplements with vit A etc.. But I don't see how someone becomes vit A toxic from some dairy/eggs on otherwise lowish vit A diet especially if he has good vit D level and his thyroid works normally.. I mean look at Paul Saladino that guy ingested more retinol this year than all of us here together and he is perfectly healthy.. It is because he is 24/7 on the sun, his metabolism works great and he has zero deficiencies of cofactors that are needed for good vit A metabolism. Also he is avoiding toxins that inhibit vit A metabolism..