Discussion

I needed to disable self-signups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type sign-ups lately. Please contact me directly if you want membership on this forum. Thanks.

Forum Navigation
Please to create posts and topics.

Riboflavin's role in an important VA detox pathway

@romaine - thanks for those links. It is a bit complicated; I bought her Workbook and it's really detailed. I'm going to give it a shot, now that I'm blood-testing again after a bit of a hiatus on that. The relationship she describes between the hormone-D requirements of the microbiome and how the correct level re-establishes good sleep, which then leads to an increased need for the B's for repair that's been put-off, is intriguing. The idea that we provide hormone-D to the bugs living in the dark, and they in turn providing us with the B's when things are balanced makes sense. It'll be interesting to see how fast the level can be increased with large doses. It's winter here and hopefully the protocol will prove itself in a few months. I know I was in better shape in the hot sun of Texas for 15 years, where I was out in it every day, even 2011 when we had 70 days over 100 degrees and no rain.  I wish I'd been tracking hormone-D along the way, but I ignored doctors for the most part of those years. I did the Marshall Protocol for 2 years to try to recover thyroid-function, and that drives hormone-D to super-low levels, which I may never have gotten back-up since 2012. If what she says about not being able to recover from very low levels without supplementation is true, then I think any downside is worth the risk, especially being in the snow-belt now. I'm eager to dive into the research and find a direct VA-hormone D connection. It could well be a key to some of the discrepancies we're seeing. 

Thanks @hillcountry and @romaine some good info there.

This is a good article on why doctors are over concerned about D toxicity. Toxicity is real but D isn't as dangerous as many think.

Vitamin D Is Not as Toxic as Was Once Thought: A Historical and an Up-to-Date Perspective

https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(15)00244-X/fulltext

It wouldn't surpise me if VA toxicity and D deficiency both contribute significantly to SIBO/IBD. When the gut is in a state of dysbiosis then it may actually destroy B1 and others. When the gut is healthy then beneficial gut flora actually supply some of the B vitamins, I think B2 and folate are the ones quoted frequently. B2 deficiency is the most common nutritional deficiency, more common than Vitamin D and iodine deficiencies.

@tim - yes, and thanks for the link. That'll be helpful for some folks I know. Here's the best one of hers I've heard so far after listening to 6 presentations and interviews. She's got her A-game on. It's from Jan 16, 2020. Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPU76Hy_qgg

Imagine if she becomes aware of Grant's work. If she's really fixing Crohn's, IBS and Colitis, among other illnesses, and I don't see reason to doubt it, then that fact would sure have a lot of significance for our understanding of what's going on. What if a low hormone-D level makes it difficult to detox VA?  She talks about years of healing once sleep is restored. I like that she's not afraid to say when she doesn't know something. She'd be a hell of a ally if the VA-hormoneD story can be unraveled. It seems like healing would be accelerated, by understanding both of them. 

 

https://www.blogtalkradio.com/parkinsons-recovery/2018/02/22/did-you-know-that-there-is-a-sleep-disorder-that-may-cause-parkinsons-disease

This one is linked at Dr. Gominak's website. I've got a friend who uses a CPAP device and another with occasional tremors. This one added some back-story to her discoveries and was specific about her Parkinson patients who benefited from using a CPAP. 

Here's part two of the interview.

https://www.blogtalkradio.com/parkinsons-recovery/2018/04/11/diving-a-little-deeper-into-the-gut-brain-connection-of-parkinsons-disease

I’ve posted this before but it’s a clear link between retinoic acid & gut. https://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/when-carrots-may-not-be-good-you

Grant I just want to say thank you for the blog summarising your thoughts on the detox setback cycle. This all makes such a lot of sense & hopefully as time goes on will become even clearer. 

 

 

Quote from hillcountry on January 21, 2020, 4:53 pm

@tim - yes, and thanks for the link. That'll be helpful for some folks I know. Here's the best one of hers I've heard so far after listening to 6 presentations and interviews. She's got her A-game on. It's from Jan 16, 2020. Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPU76Hy_qgg

Imagine if she becomes aware of Grant's work. If she's really fixing Crohn's, IBS and Colitis, among other illnesses, and I don't see reason to doubt it, then that fact would sure have a lot of significance for our understanding of what's going on. What if a low hormone-D level makes it difficult to detox VA?  She talks about years of healing once sleep is restored. I like that she's not afraid to say when she doesn't know something. She'd be a hell of a ally if the VA-hormoneD story can be unraveled. It seems like healing would be accelerated, by understanding both of them. 

 

@hillcountry Very interesting interview, having our own biome create all eight necessary Bs and in the proper ratios like it is supposed to, would be very ideal.  But yes what is the root cause of this malfunction in the first place?  Maybe it is all wrapped up in VA overload, driving VD down...  so glad this group is active, month by month I feel closer and closer to root causes.

Jenny and Curious Observer have reacted to this post.
JennyCurious Observer

@romaine Not sure about Vitamin D but sunlight destroys riboflavin, folate and maybe other B vitamins. If you are eating legumes, nuts, potatoes, mushrooms, eggs and meat regularly then you'll get plenty of the B vitamins. People recovering from VA toxicity may be chronically deficient in some B vitamins though and may need supplementation. Just make sure any B vitamin supplement has no more than about 20 mg of B6 and you want to minimize folic acid in supplements also, it should always have both biotin and B5 these two compete for absorption. A low dose supplement is best. The B complex supplements at my nearist chemist have terrible ratios and doses so I take Berocca, it has the complete range of Bs in suitable doses.

@hillcountry It seems that healing from VA toxicity may use up significant amounts of B vitamins. I don't really understand why but it seems that deficiencies can take months to correct, do you know why? One would expect a deficiency of a water soluble B vitamin to correct quite quickly with supplementation and adequate amounts of co factors. Maybe it's due to the time it takes for the body to repair itself once it receives the right nutrition or maybe it's missing co factors?

Wish I knew more about it, @tim. Even though I've taken B's off-and-on for years, I never studied them. There are so many variables evident, now that I have somewhat gone down the B rabbit-hole, that make a protocol that simplifies it worth considering for me. The story that Dr. Gominak tells about Pantothenic Acid is enough to make me not want to re-create that wheel or suffer the consequences of a lack of understanding. These B's are more powerful than I ever considered. I was one of those, 'I'll pay for yellow-urine any day' not-so-deep thinkers. I've accepted that there's no way I can put it all together myself, especially on top of whatever is happening via low-VA diet. That's where the "shepherd" part comes into play, i.e. those unique individuals like Grant who really are trying to help us by sharing the truth and who aren't trying to poison us. We need a lot more of those kinds of people in our society to keep it from disintegrating into who knows what. I'm reading that we'll be hitting the wall of medical-bankruptcy here in the states by 2024 (Medicare, Medicaid, etc.). Time will tell, but what comes next doesn't look very promising. It's going to be an even higher-priority to be able to take care of ones self and ones family than it is now, not that the day-to-day (non-emergency) medical-system today is doing much to help us get any healthier. 

puddleduck has reacted to this post.
puddleduck

@tim  thanks for the feedback.   I do eat all those foods you mentioned but some only in the last 1 to 2 months.   I have also wondered if it is something else in sunshine not making me feel well.   Would like to figure it out so I can get the benefits of the sun.   I am currently working on the B12oils dot com protocol involving I, Se and Mo.   I don't have the supplement versions the protocol recommends of those but still hoping they activate the Bs.   When I was doing hair testing I was either low or low but in the acceptable range even after supplementing those minerals and I doubt my status is much better.   The foods I eat have some but maybe not enough.   If things don't change much in a month or 2 maybe I'll try that B supplement you take in addition to the minerals.   I have so many supplements including many single B ones that I'd like to use them.   (I have and will open the B capsules with powder in them to make doses smaller)  Once I took B5 supplements for acne and they worked but I didn't take biotin at the same time.  I don't remember why I stopped.   I think I got worried about it for reasons stated by you and others and quit but didn't specifically know about balancing it with biotin at the time.

I don't know if this is legit, but supposedly how much dream recall one has can determine if you are deficient in B6?   I've always had some dream recall but it has gotten better after going low A.

Are you taking those antibiotics for dysbiosis/sibo?   I am waiting a bit to see if i can solve the overgrowth (if I do have it, leaning towards thinking I do) without using the kill/starve part of many protocols but will also probably add the antibiotics if things don't improve much.  

@romaine

Be careful supplementing with trace minerals, they tend to easily have toxic effects. I'm consuming legumes daily which are rich in molybdenum and I'm consuming fish everyday which supplies DHA, selenium and iodine.

Sunlight doesn't just deplete VA cleanly. Sunlight causes retinoids and carotenoids to turn into breakdown products that are quite toxic as well. I'm not saying that is why sunlight makes you feel unwell or that sunlight is harmful, it is very good, but it does deplete Bs and create VA breakdown products.

My dream recall was off the charts in the first few weeks of the low VA diet and then returned to almost nothing. I don't know what that means.

I am currently taking Metagenics CandiBactin-BR. It is very good. Most of my bowel movements are now solid. I still have gas but it is less. Once I have finished it I will move onto the other product I ordered called FC-Cidal made by Biotics Research. Both of these products I found out about from a published study.

I am not suffering from the shortness of breath that was affecting me. I'm not sure if it is the dysbiosis herbs or the B vitamins but something has helped. I think it is probably the herbs.

These are the supplements I am currently taking: B1, B2, Berocca, digestive enzymes, I was taking probiotics and will resume once I've finished the herbs, also K2, D, magnesium.

Before the herbs arrived I bought some mint oil capsules from the chemist which are for IBS but they didn't do much.

I eat about one egg per day and consume fish every day for lunch. My carotenoid intake is minimal. Eggs and fish are the most valuable animal products for human nutrition as they both contain DHA, iodine and selenium. Eggs are also rich in choline. Red meat is also good though for zinc and other nutrients.