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BREATH This book will change your life (100%, "overnight")
Again you're making false accusations. I did a small post offering a different perspective on CO2, you got massively triggered and wrote a small essay on why I'm such an ignoramus that knows nothing about respiratory physiology. I then asked for evidence for your claim that a low level of CO2 in the blood is a common problem that creates significant health effects. You've then proceeded to spend post after post throwing ad hominems at me without providing one shred of evidence for your claim. I followed your link but it wanted me to buy the book after the second chapter so I was unable to find any references. How am I wrong? For posting evidence showing that elevated levels of CO2 in a room impair cognitive functioning? Or asking you for evidence for your claims? You're getting pretty confused again Dino, you're bringing up the breathing method, I'm simply asking for evidence for your claim about low blood levels of CO2. How can you see by direct experience that I'm wrong? Can you see individual molecules of CO2 while in a meditative state doing your breathing technique?
Come on Dino, give us just one piece of evidence for your claim!
Ok once kids went to bed I have spent about 2 hours searching articles I guess it is sufficient for our purpose (once again you have many more in the three books and also the link already given; they are easy to find but of course if you dont want to it is a different thing). Don't know how you didn't "find" anything because you have really plenty of them everywhere (also in the free pdf you criticize but which is of very high quality and contains many many references at the end of each of the five free chapters).
Anyway, to start with, here is an « easy-to-read » summary of chronic hyperventilation & Buteyko method :
(with 33 references at the end of the paper, pages 15&16)
Then basically one can search whatever disease in relation to CO2 (it is so essential you always find).
For example if you search CO2 and Epilepsy, you find :
Epilepsy Res
. 2014 Feb;108(2):345-8. doi: 10.1016/j.eplepsyres.2013.11.012. Epub 2013 Nov 20.
5% CO₂ inhalation suppresses hyperventilation-induced absence seizures in children
Xiao-Fan Yang 1, Xiu-Yu Shi 2, Jun Ju 2, Wei-Na Zhang 2, Yu-Jie Liu 2, Xiao-Yan Li 2, Li-Ping Zou 3
If you search about brain & CO2 you find :
J Appl Physiol (1985)
. 2014 Apr 1;116(7):844-51. doi: 10.1152/japplphysiol.00637.2013. Epub 2013 Nov 21.
Hyperventilation, cerebral perfusion, and syncope
R V Immink 1, F C Pott, N H Secher, J J van Lieshout
« This review summarizes evidence in humans for an association between hyperventilation (HV)-induced hypocapnia and a reduction in cerebral perfusion leading to syncope defined as transient loss of consciousness (TLOC). The cerebral vasculature is sensitive to changes in both the arterial carbon dioxide (PaCO2) and oxygen (PaO2) partial pressures so that hypercapnia/hypoxia increases and hypocapnia/hyperoxia reduces global cerebral blood flow. »
You can enjoy searching almost any disease like that.
And here are 21 more papers about hypocapnia (low CO2) and its effects, etc. (there are much much more papers but I think it is more than sufficient since you have asked me for 1 ; here you have 56).
Here we go in random order (just searched randomly as it is very easy to find when you really seek so I give you what you asked and dont want to make everything « ordered and beautiful », not needed) :
1.
Psych Clin Ther J 2018, Vol 1(1): 104
Chronic Hyperventilation: Hypocapnia and Psychophysiological Dysregulation
Umesh Pal Singh*
Subharti Medical College, Meerut, Uttar Pradesh, India
è Extract :
Dysfunctional breathing/hyperventilation syndrome (DB/HVS) is a breathing problem that involves breathing too deeply and/or too rapidly (hyperventilation) [1].
Hyperventilation is the result of an increase in minute ventilation, when carbon dioxide, as a volatile acid, is blown off quickly causing a decrease in alveolar concentration below its normal levels [2].
Hypocapnia is a condition of reduced blood carbon dioxide concentrations. Then anxiety can manifest as a consequence of cerebral vasoconstriction. As a result of a rise in pH of the blood, there is also an increase in neuromuscular irritability [3].
As a result of metabolic processes, our body produces H+ ions on a daily basis, which, in turn, decreases the pH of the blood. Since body always tries to maintain acid-base balance within narrow limits, any fluctuations beyond this range may cause harmful effects [4]. Carbon dioxide is a guardian of the pH of the blood, which is essential for survival [5].
Hyperventilation removes too much CO2, raising the blood pH above normal, and causes physical symptoms [6]. Most people have experienced short episodes of acute over breathing during stressful or frightening events [7]. The hyperventilation syndrome is usually easily recognized when it follows an acute form. It is often overlooked, however, when it follows a chronic and insidious course [8].
2.
Int J Psychophysiol
. 2010 Oct;78(1):68-79. doi: 10.1016/j.ijpsycho.2010.05.006. Epub 2010 May 25.
Hyperventilation in panic disorder and asthma: empirical evidence and clinical strategies
Alicia E Meuret 1, Thomas Ritz
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20685222/
è Extract :
Sustained or spontaneous hyperventilation has been associated with a variety of physical symptoms and has been linked to a number of organic illnesses and mental disorders. Theories of panic disorder hold that hyperventilation either produces feared symptoms of hypocapnia or protects against feared suffocation symptoms of hypercapnia. Although the evidence for both theories is inconclusive, findings from observational, experimental, and therapeutic studies suggest an important role of low carbon dioxide (CO2) levels in this disorder. Similarly, hypocapnia and associated hyperpnia are linked to bronchoconstriction, symptom exacerbation, and lower quality of life in patients with asthma. Raising CO2 levels by means of therapeutic capnometry has proven beneficial effects in both disorders, and the reversing of hyperventilation has emerged as a potent mediator for reductions in panic symptom severity and treatment success.
4.
Jillian O'Keeffe (2018) The Effects of Carbon Dioxide in the Bloodstream.
https://education.seattlepi.com/effects-carbon-dioxide-bloodstream-3546.html
« Hyperventilation removes too much CO2, raising the blood pH above normal, and causes physical symptoms » etc.
5.
Morton ET(1990) Hyperventilation Syndrome-Hiding Behind Pseudonyms? Chest Journal 97: 1285–1288.
https://journal.chestnet.org/article/S0012-3692(16)32005-0/fulltext
6.
- Frank HW, Richard G, Walton TR (2001)Respiratory Dysregulation in Anxiety, Functional Cardiac, and Pain Disorders: Assessment, Phenomenology, and Treatment. Behavior Modification 25 : 513-545.
è « The latest evidence from laboratories indicates that subtle disturbances of breathing, such as tidal volume instability and sighing, contribute to the chronic hypocapnia often found in panic patients. Hypocapnia is also common in functional cardiac and chronic pain disorders, and studies indicate that it mediates some of their symptomatology. Consistent with the role of respiratory dysregulation in these disorders, initial evidence indicates efficacy of respiration-focused treatment.
7.
November 1961
Prolonged Hyperventilation in Man Associated Electrolyte Changes and Subjective Symptoms
BENJAMIN B. OKEL, M.D.; J. WILLIS HURST, M.D.
Author Affiliations
Arch Intern Med. 1961;108(5):757-762. doi:10.1001/archinte.1961.03620110097013
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/566581
8.
Vojnosanit Pregl 1996 Jul-Aug;53(4):261-74. [Carbon dioxide inhibits the generation of active forms of oxygen in human and animal cells and the significance of the phenomenon in biology and medicine]. Boljevic S, Kogan AH, Gracev SV, Jelisejeva SV, Daniljak IG
è « Finally, it was established that CO2 led to the better coordination of oxidation and phosphorylation and increased the phosphorylation velocity in liver mitochondria. The results clearly confirmed the general property of CO2 to inhibit significantly the AOF generation in all the cell types »
Izv Akad Nauk Ser Biol 1997 Mar-Apr;(2):204-17. [Carbon dioxide--a universal inhibitor of the generation of active oxygen forms by cells]. Kogan AKh, Grachev SV, Eliseeva SV, Bolevich S
è « The results obtained suggest that CO2 at a tension close to that observed in the blood (37.0 mm Hg) and high tensions (60 or 146 mm Hg) is a potent inhibitor of generation of the active oxygen forms by the cells and mitochondria of the human and tissues. »
Hyperventilation and cardiac symptoms [1M byte], Nixon PGF , Internal Medicine, VOL 10:12, December 1989, 67-84
Hyperventilation Syndrome: A Diagnosis Begging for Recognition
GREGORY J. MAGARIAN MD; DEBORAH A. MIDDAUGH MD, and DOUGLAS H. LINZ MD, Portland
http://www.members.westnet.com.au/pkolb/magarian.htm
è « Among the most difficult and frustrating. patients for physicians are those with multiple complaints involving many organ systems who, despite seeing numerous physicians, fail to obtain a satisfactory explanation or relief from their symptoms. They often have a "positive review of systems." After numerous physicians have been seen and multiple diagnostic tests have been done, which have excluded organic disorders, such patients are often dismissed as having nothing wrong with them or having a severe neurosis, anxiety, depression, hypochondriasis or hysteria, despite the persistence of symptoms that may be disabling in their work and other aspects of everyday living. Unfortunately, this scenario continues to be a common occurrence and is the frequent setting in which the hyperventilation syndrome is recognized, months or years after its onset. »
Ahrens T, Schallom L, Bettorf K, Ellner S, Hurt G, O'Mara V, Ludwig J, George W, Marino T, Shannon W., End-tidal
carbon dioxide measurements as a prognostic indicator of outcome in cardiac arrest. Am J Crit Care 2001 Nov; 10(6):
391-398.
Balestrino M, Somjen GG, Concentration of carbon dioxide, interstitial pH and synaptic transmission in hippocampal
formation of the rat, J Physiol 1988, 396: p. 247-266.
Brown EB, Physiological effects of hyperventilation, Physiol Reviews 1953 Oct, 33 (4): p. 445-471.
And a few more (I know you love references…) :
Clinical and microcirculatory effects of transcutaneous CO2 therapy in intermittent claudication. Randomized double-blind clinical trial with a parallel design
R Fabry 1, P Monnet, J Schmidt, J-R Lusson, P-H Carpentier, J-C Baguet, C Dubray
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19736632/
Immunology. 2013 Sep; 140(1): 123–132.
Published online 2013 Aug 12. doi: 10.1111/imm.12124
PMCID: PMC3809712
PMID: 23691924
Carbon monoxide exposure improves immune function in lupus-prone mice
Juan P Mackern-Oberti,1 Carolina Llanos,1,2 Leandro J Carreño,1 Sebastián A Riquelme,1 Sergio H Jacobelli,1,2 Ignacio Anegon,3 and Alexis M Kalergis1,2,3
⇒ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3809712/
Buteyko K.P., Demin D.V., Odintsova M.P. Interconnetion between carbon dioxide in
alveols, arterial blood pressure and blood cholesterine tonus observed on patients suffered from
stenocardia and hypertension.. Proceedings of the Third Siberean Gps conference. Irkutsk, 1965.
Buteyko K.P., Odintsova M.P. Hypervantillation as one of the reasons for spasms of bronchs
and arterial vessels and visceral muscles. Proceedings of the 4th scientific-practical conference on
medicine and exercise therapy. Sverdlovsk, 1968.
Genina V.A. et al. Treatment of bronchial asthma in children by deliberate volitional breating
method (VBM) based on data of the First MMI Childtens' Hospital. Pediatry, 1982, #2.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15866797/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20363999/
In Vivo. 2018 Nov-Dec; 32(6): 1555–1559.
Published online 2018 Nov 3. doi: 10.21873/invivo.11414
PMCID: PMC6365751
PMID: 30348716
Transcutaneous Carbon Dioxide Treatment Is Capable of Reducing Peripheral Vascular Resistance in Hypertensive Patients
BALÁZS NÉMETH,1,2 ISTVÁN KISS,1 BELLA AJTAY,1 IVÁN PÉTER,2 ZITA KRESKA,2 ATTILA CZIRÁKI,3 IVÁN G. HORVÁTH,3 and ZÉNÓ AJTAY2,3
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6365751/
Wanamee P, Poppel JW, Glicksman AS, Randall HT, Roberts KE, Respiratory alkalosis in hepatic coma, Arch Intern
Med 1956, 97: p. 762-767.
Wirrel CW, Camfield PR, Gordon KE, Camfield CS, Dooley JM, and Hanna BD, Will a critical level of hypocapnia
always induce an absence seizure? Epilepsia 1996; 37(5): p. 459-462.
etc.
Now I go increase my CO2 and have a good night's sleep (I advice you to do the same; you don't even have to tell us, just try and enjoy the benefits in secret if you wish so). More seriously and after careful thinking, ignoring you would have been an error as all this circus with these unnecessary references have at least increased the "views" and maintain this topic at top so more people can see it and hopefully implement the methods (not only Buteyko but also Wim Hof and other forms of Pranayama) in their lives for the better. For that I can only thank you (very seriously, yes) and hope you'll continue to post again and again so we keep this up!
Excellent @Dino! And a big thank you for presenting these references and again for mentioning the books. After having read "Breath" I am in the middle of "The Oxygen Advantage" and find that both answer many questions I had.
I have practiced a lot of pranayama for forty plus years and have no breath problems, but I have noticed a link between this vA adventure and the breath. Did @ggenereux2014 write about this somewhere?
For one, as my husband is getting rid of vA (10 months on the diet and many benefits, including clearing up of Daltonism), his breath has changed. He used to have very short BOLT, but this is getting better without any other exercise apart from the diet.
Also when I have a detox attack, that is most of the time I have been on this diet, I get into big sighs by day and snoring at night, which did not happen normally before. So obviously the body is trying to normalize and there is a feedback mechanism at play
So I suppose we might have collected vA surpluses by incorrect breathing, at least partially. Maybe by inability to get rid of vA for many days/weeks/years. Maybe one part of the breath sequence is when we get rid of excess vA. If that part is reduced or absent, we would slowly accumulate vA over the years.
Thinking of the training required to help the body sustain a higher carbon dioxide level, it sounds as though this is a matter of neither Ida nor Pingala. It would happen during the passage of Ida to Pingala, and from Pingala to Ida. That is during breath suspension.
I wonder if detoxing vA is not what happens in Nadi Shodhana pranayama. Just the name means: cleaning the rivers. The rivers being the blood vessels and lymphatic ducts. I think this is where vA products are lurking before being hopefully expelled. People who believe this is just happening in a theoretical immaterial "subtle body" are not aware of the etymology: the subtle body is the system of the body that is irrigated by the Subtle Nadi, the Sushumna.
Nadi Shodhana allows for precise balancing of the two sides, but also for a breath retention that will work on improving carbon dioxide sensitivity. Obviously breath retention, which is part of many pranayamas, is not sufficient to clean the nadis (to get rid of vA). The breath has to be trained to be equally strong on BOTH sides, otherwise nothing happens for the cleaning.
Which means that the accumulation of vA happens when one of the two sides is preponderant (I think Pingala). I notice that all excess on the Pingala side makes matters worse: MSG for example, blue light etc.
If we live by Pingala mostly, there is no way we can detox vA on a day to day basis.
To quote Vedic scriptures to please Tim: The length of your life is defined by the number of breaths you take. The less breath cycles, the longer your life will be".
Also they say "lobh se maut", which means "Death comes from Greed" or "Greed leads to Death". Pingala is the Nadi for Greed, which is why in our consumers society it is encouraged.
I could go on and on but this is enough for today!
I have substantially edited my former post which was not very clear.
Thanks for that. I'll have a read. Unfortunately for you there are quite a few studies showing that elevated indoor CO2 levels adversely affect cognitive function significantly which means that for the vast majority of people more CO2 is bad. I'm coming around to the idea that chronic hyperventilators are adversely affected by low CO2 though.
Not sure why you are in favour of Wim Hof as a pro Buteyko website was claiming that that technique LOWERS CO2 levels.
Oh yeah you probably got a good night's sleep, excess CO2 dulls the mind and makes one drowsy...
A couple of studies that go against your claims:
Results: The results revealed a negative correlation between BHT and ETCO(2) (r= -0.241, p<0.05), directly opposite to Buteyko's claims. BHT was significantly shorter in people with abnormal spirometry (FEV(1) or FVC<15% below predicted), with no difference in ETCO(2) levels between the abnormal and normal spirometry groups. In the abnormal spirometry group, lower BHT was found to correlate with a thoracic dominant breathing pattern. (r= -0.408, p<0.028).
Conclusion: Breathing 3% CO2 during exercise does not prevent EIA. The shape of the FEV1 response curve after 3% CO2 suggests that a greater degree of EIA (because of increased minute ventilation during exercise) was opposed by a direct relaxant effect of CO2 on the airway. Increased airway CO2 alone is an unlikely mechanism for the reported benefits of BBT; nevertheless, further study of the effects of voluntary hypoventilation in asthma is warranted.
@tim-2 Yes because Life is not a formula that you can put in a small box that's why your asking of papers for whatever one says is ridiculous. In breathing you have nitric oxide that plays a role, the speed of breathing, the volume, the state of mind and emotions, EMFs, etc, etc. Life is too complex for modern science to gather in a a fee papers you know. In any case you have overwhelming evidence that CO2 is mainly curative or at least necessary to good health so you can do whatever you wish with it that's your freedom.
Look, you basically go and pee everyday. You need to do it and you go. Do you have references to prove that ? Do you need them ? You can basically come with any outcome in references but is it necessary for everything you say? Of course not. It is a good method to look smart and hide a complete lack of experience and true knowledge and this is evident for many.
Increased CO2 (always in relation and good proportion to oxygen nitric oxide etc.) makes you feel alert yet relaxed. It is a state that makes you feel fine but you have to experience it - you prefer to continue to talk without trying like if you talked about honey being salty and refusing to taste it - everyone sees the ridiculousness of the situation except you. You asked for a paper because you were sure there wasnt any: you see there a tons of them. People use breathing with great success for thousands of years so basically either you apply it or not but stop bothering everybody with papers etc. it is just an escape for you to not admit that a counterintuitive thing and opposite to what you thought (ie co2 is a simple poison) is actually true - same as when @ggenereux2014 shows evidence about the uselessness of A. We can continue like this for years (and I will if necessary because I know what I speak about here and everyone can try and judge the technique and see that you say nonsense). I dont talk about every possible topic by flooding every single conversation like you do because what I dont know I either try or dont but dont speak without a clue.
So here, you are free not to try. You are free to talk nonsense. You are free to be dishonest and refuse the mounting evidence. And I am free to think it say it and be sure that people will judge correctly by themselves the whole story.
Wim Hof is another process much more complicated but in the end it increases CO2 drastically as well so another subject you should try to understand and ecpetience before talking about.
Anyway, thank you for the post.
Can I just say that I think both Tim-2 and Dino are WICKED SMAAT (as they say in Boston)? And we need both of you here? Our brains are all trying to write stories to talk about what is happening.. But no one is down there in the cellular and molecular level and we can't be. It's so challenging.
I've been working on nose-breathing for years, although I think my face developed as a mouth breather and my bite isn't comfortable, especially on my back sleeping. I'm not overweight or fleshy. I've actually never snored much at all until lately, it started at about 1 year lowered-VA. Now I've begun to snore when I try to sleep on my back. My mouth remains closed, but my jaw drops, my teeth aren't together. On my side I can sleep with my teeth together. If I were to guess the snoring sound is being created someone between the nose and mouth (higher, not in the throat). I have a lot of detox happening in my nasal passages, but yet I always have. It's not a happy place in there.
Regarding the whole breathing thing, I think that I'm pretty heavily VA-toxic but owe the good health I do enjoy to my daily outside work. Also, I hate my mask. I like fresh air.
I occasionally feel slightly asthmatic and DO feel that I can conquer it with my tiny little bit of knowledge about over-breathing. So I do believe over-breathing is a thing. Whether it is CO2 or who knows what, I do believe in the notion that hyperventilation is at the base of some issues.
I also think there are other pollutants besides CO2 that factor into the problems with indoor air.
As a avid gardener from age 9 until 57, I totally believe carbon is a friend, LOL. It's what the food chain is based on. At the very least, I worry much less about carbon emissions than I do about roundup and other ag chemicals, radiation, poisoned food, toxic pharma etc. There is a strategy in public relations called the "limited hangout". You cop to a lesser evil, to get people to ignore the bigger evil. It is a magicians trick, really. Hey, look you Greenies! Get on board we will all be ANTI CARBON! (while the carbon rallies are held, they build a nuclear reactor in your town)
@ourania Pranayama is too vast a topic to be tackled here but you are right that breathing is related to A. It is actually related to every single thing. It is the very basis of your life experience (that's why in almost all old languages "breath" and "spirit" was the same, such as in Old Greek "Pneuma" or old Hebrew "Ruach", etc.). Whatever you do, whoever you meet, whatever you eat or drink or the place you are have an influence on your breathing pattern. By regular (ideally constant) observation (concentration on) your breath you will over months and years come to a point where you will be continually and without effort aware of your breath - then you will be in position to observe the various effects of whatever experience you have on your breath and then things become really interesting (some people or situations actually make you hyperventilate). The whole training is basically bringing something unconscious to become fully conscious. The next pratice then is to bring that to your dream state (lucid dreaming and more advanced techniques) and finally to your sleep state (when the waking mind is asleep and only the "essence" stays there). This seems rather "esoteric" and it is but it is an experience to which everyone who practices various kind of ancient yogas arrive at. It is however an experience which is impossible to put in words but which you keep with you forever once experienced.
By the way from what I read in your posts I guess that you would be delighted by these two books:
&
They go much deeper into breathing and expose both the exoteric and esoteric points of view (the second is much more "science-oriented", the first is much more traditional in its approach.
@lil-chick I like your last paragraph very much. It is indeed a cover-up so people are not aware of the real problems facing them. Same as with the Covid-19 "crisis" stuff but that's another story... (even if both are linked).
@tim-2 Just to clarify that I am not pro-Buteyko nor pro-Wim Hof nor pro-anything except "pro-Truth". Whatever works IN PRACTICE I like whatever doesn't I don't care about. Deep diving or high-altitude walking or whatever pranayama technique which works well, I don't care as long as it makes people feel better. Also, CO2 is just one component of the breathing thing, you have also the fact that breathings allows you to control your nervous system (by activating or deactivating sympathetic and parasympathetic sides for example), your pH and many other elements so it is a whole. That's why I always insist on the fact that people do the breathing so they can see and overtime adjust every life situation to a correct pattern of breathing - there are too many factors that come into play to explain them wholly by "science". Finally, to be very clear on that, CO2 is neither good nor bad in itself, it is just necessary in some %. If you go outside and observe (really just observe), you will hardly find anyone that hypoventilates, but people that breathe through mouth or with mild, chronic hyperventilation are really the vast majority of people in modern countries and especially cities. Lastly, concerning Wim Hof, the hyperventilation phase lowers CO2 a lot but then the retention phase actually "cheats" with the brain in order to increase CO2 way more than you should be able normally. You end up with very high CO2 levels. Over time your brain adapts to much higher CO2 levels and your breathing normalizes but in a very different way (altough somewhat related) than Buteyko. Other pranayama exercises still do this by other pathways.