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Tim's Log
@tim-2 very interesting, wonder if it is a single supplement in the stack or a combo that is doing the change.
r-lipoic seems to have a nice list of helpful benefits! https://www.performancelab.com/blogs/energy/r-lipoic-acid
Lipoic acid contains sulphur but is not composed of amino acids like glutathione. It's involved in recycling glutathione, vitamin C and vitamin E.
It's been used for treating both heavy metal and mushroom poisoning.
It's the main thing which Denise Gabay Otten in her book Curing Courtney claims cured her daughter of autoimmune hepatitis.
In Germany, lipoic acid is approved for the treatment of diabetic neuropathies and is available by prescription.
It improves cellular glucose uptake and increases insulin sensitivity.
It's something I want to do more research on, it appears promising for treating Hypervitaminosis A and Accutane adverse effects.
150mg is a low dose and may be appropriate for long term supplementation.
Alpha Lipoic Acid and Liver Disease by Burton M. Berkson, MD, MS, PhD
Hi Tim, may I ask why did you include coq10 in there? I just recently bought two bottles of 200mg coq10 capsules. I took one capsule and it gave me this weird anxious wired feeling so I haven't taken it since.
@tim-2 taking ALA is dangerous if you have amalgams or simply some mercury load in the body. It just redistributes= pulls the mercury from the tissues into the blood and than drops it. Because ALA has very short half life. That's why chelation experts say if taking ALA then ONLY around the clock day and nigh like every 2-3 hours in small doses around 30-50mg..
Garrett Smith says that vitamin e pushes vA into liver and prevents vA detox. What do you think of this? I will start my final vA detox today and the only nutrient that is going to be really low is vitamin e, so I thought maybe I should take vE supplement while I do my last vA detox. This time I will follow the vA detox so long that my palms are completely white and maybe I will start seeing some benefits then, if not then I will retire from this vA theory completely.
Hi @arket,
Good to have you in the discussion here.
200mg is high, maybe try lower. I wouldn't take it in isolation either. I added it because it's a high reward low risk cofactor that is supportive of liver health and works alongside other nutrients I'm taking like C, full spectrum E, PQQ and lipoic acid.
I'm going to look at buying lower dose CoQ10, maybe 50mg.
The PQQ dose of 10mg I'm taking is high, I'd prefer lower. I can split those capsules so I may start taking 1/2 a capsule per day at some point.
Full spectrum vitamin E may be the number one protective nutrient with regard to Hypervitaminosis A.
Clinical Pearl: Vitamin E (α-tocopherol), 800 IU daily, may reduce retinoid toxicity
In a study of patients with myelodysplastic syndrome who were treated with high-dose (100 mg/m2) oral 13-cis -retinoic acid daily, the addition of vitamin E (α-tocopherol) prevented retinoid-induced side effects in a high proportion of patients. 1 Of 66 patients studied, 45 were treated concomitantly with vitamin E, 800 IU daily. In 100% of patients treated with 13-cis -retinoic acid alone cheilosis developed, compared with 31% treated with a combination of 13-cis -retinoic acid and vitamin E. Hyperkeratosis developed in 100% of patients treated with the drug alone compared with 27% treated with the combination regimen. Forty-eight percent of patients on a regimen of 13-cis -retinoic acid alone had mucositis compared with 4% of those also treated with vitamin E. Epistaxis occurred in 19%, hair loss in 19%, rash in 57%, and nail changes in 5% of patients treated with 13-cis -retinoic acid alone. Frequencies of those side effects in patients treated with the combination were 7%, 2%, 0%, and 0%, respectively. Myalgias and arthralgias occurred in 29% of patients treated with the drug alone compared with 7% who also received vitamin E. Elevations of cholesterol and triglyceride levels as well as liver function tests were also prevented by addition of vitamin E.
This study used the worst kind of vitamin E, megadosed synthetic alpha tocopherol. Imagine the results with full spectrum tocopherols and tocotrienols.
Garrett Smith says that vitamin e pushes vA into liver and prevents vA detox. What do you think of this? t
If one is on a low vitamin A diet liver vitamin A stores are gradually being depleted. Vitamin E supplementation doesn't change that. Even if it did it wouldn't cause much of a problem because the toxic effects of vitamin A are far more due to it leaving liver stores than the other way around. But also, what about dose? No one has to take high doses. Also, each tocopherol and tocotrienol has a different effect from the others.
The study I quoted above shows how protective vitamin E can be against retinoic acid and the effect seen in that study can't be due to vitamin E "pushing it" into liver storage because RA does not get metabolised back into retinol.
Let me know if you need more clarity on this issue.
I need to do a lot more research on LA to really know what I'm talking about but these are my thoughts atm with regard to what you said.
ALA has a short half life because it is rapidly absorbed into cells and metabolised to DHLA. Or are you talking about DHLA too?
LA and GSH are important endogenous molecules for metal detoxification. If someone with cholestasis started taking high dose LA I can imagine that causing a problem. But to say that someone with metal toxicity should not take any amount of LA, that doesn't make sense to me. Taking low doses is just gently supporting the body's innate metal detoxification physiology. It could make sense to delay use of it until bile flow has been improved.
Thanks for your thoughtful answers. I already ordered natural alpha tocopherol from sunflower oil because the research that I read seemed very promising and best of all there were no side effects. Even the synthetic vE was beneficial and like you said the results would have been way better with natural vE. I get plenty of gamma tocopherol from my diet but almost no alpha form so that's why I chose to go with alpha supplement only.
For now, I won't start taking coq10 because I'm hesitant to supplement things that our body makes endogenously.
Quote from tim on November 3, 2023, 6:31 pmI need to do a lot more research on LA to really know what I'm talking about but these are my thoughts atm with regard to what you said.
ALA has a short half life because it is rapidly absorbed into cells and metabolised to DHLA. Or are you talking about DHLA too?
LA and GSH are important endogenous molecules for metal detoxification. If someone with cholestasis started taking high dose LA I can imagine that causing a problem. But to say that someone with metal toxicity should not take any amount of LA, that doesn't make sense to me. Taking low doses is just gently supporting the body's innate metal detoxification physiology. It could make sense to delay use of it until bile flow has been improved.
I said " That's why chelation experts say if taking ALA then ONLY around the clock day and nigh like every 2-3 hours in small doses around 30-50mg.."
ALA has short half life. So if you take it once a day you just pull mercury from the tissues to the blood and after 3-4 hours thatmercury will be left alone again causing damage to the tissues. That's why it is a good idea to take it every 2-4 hours to keep ALA level stable to keep chelating that mercury and not just redistributing it around the body and causing huge oxidative damage...
You're welcome.
Like with CoQ10, choline is sourced both exogenously and endogenously and choline is in my opinion one of the most beneficial nutrients to supplement with. I need to do a lot more research on CoQ10, I don't view it as a must have supplement yet.
I hope you find benefit in the alpha tocopherol. I do believe that lower dose full spectrum tocopherols and tocotrienols are best though. I'll try to do an in depth post on my findings at some point.
This is a good read on tocotrienols: