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Tim's Log
@tim-2 I ordered some B vitamins like benfotiamin, biotin, B2,B5 so I took some ALA 600mg capsules as well heh.. It's good amount of time from my amalgams removal + I was taking selenium and iodine(main mercury antagonists) all the time so will see how I will react to it. I will take 600mg 3 times a day. Dr.Berg said it's a good dose so he must be right.. :0)
How much selenium and iodine are you taking these days?
A 600mg dose is high imo. Maybe empty the capsule and take 1/3 of it 3x per day?
If your bile flow still isn't great then I'm concerned about you taking much LA. The liver support supplement list I posted should help bile flow. The only two main "drugs" I like for cholestasis are anti SIBO herbs (treats an indirect cause) and TUDCA.
The taurine/LA/PQQ supplement I'm taking contains 150mg and I may start taking just 1/2 a capsule a day so that's a fairly low dose that I may be happy to take long term to just very gently support detoxification.
Quote from Arket on November 4, 2023, 1:06 amAfter looking through iHerb's vitamin E section, my choice would be now this from LEF, Gamma E Mixed Tocopherols And Tocotrienols, 60 softgels - Life Extension. I don't think that taking just alpha tocopherol is completely unnatural since sunflower seeds have >90% alpha tocopherol.
Yeah that product looks ok but it's unclear where the vitamin E is from and it's too high in tocopherols for my liking.
Well this is a relief. Animal Study: Alpha-Tocopherol Has Insignificant Effects on Tocotrienol and its Metabolites (nutritioninsight.com)
I have noticed that some people claim that taking tocotrienols and tocopherols at the same time affects tocotrienols absorption. Have you done any research to see if this is truly the case or is it just some typical supplement salesmen made up bullshit to have unique selling point?
Edit. Just found nice article answering all my questions. The other vitamin E (aocs.org)
"Tocotrienols taken orally are poorly absorbed by the small intestine because the carrier proteins that transport vitamin E from the gut into the blood have a preference for tocopherols. High doses of tocotrienols can slightly increase absorption, but eventually the carrier proteins become saturated and downregulate."
"Philip Breen, associate professor of pharmaceutical sciences at the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, in Little Rock, notes that the literature accompanying many tocotrienol supplements advises taking one pill per day. 'Let’s say you take it at 8 in the morning; by noon it’s mostly gone,' he says. 'The other 20 hours of the day, all of the processes that cause oxidative damage, such as sunlight exposure and eating fatty foods, are still going on, and you’re not protected.'"
"Compadre adds that people would have to take a tocotrienol pill every four hours to get adequate antioxidant protection, which would be not only inconvenient but also expensive. 'It’s great that commercial products are beginning to incorporate tocotrienols, but because they get eliminated so quickly, they’re practically ineffective,'he says."
Looks like supplementing tocotrienols would be pretty pointless unless you have the dough to take it like four times a day. I will just test taking alpha tocopherol with mixed tocopherols since I'm not a millionaire. 😉
I would very much like to have full pdf of this article, it's from the leading vitamin E researcher Maret Traber. It looks so interesting, too bad I can't find the full article for free anywhere.
Vitamin E: How much is enough, too much and why! - ScienceDirect
Quote from tim on November 4, 2023, 3:52 pmHow much selenium and iodine are you taking these days?
A 600mg dose is high imo. Maybe empty the capsule and take 1/3 of it 3x per day?
If your bile flow still isn't great then I'm concerned about you taking much LA. The liver support supplement list I posted should help bile flow. The only two main "drugs" I like for cholestasis are anti SIBO herbs (treats an indirect cause) and TUDCA.
The taurine/LA/PQQ supplement I'm taking contains 150mg and I may start taking just 1/2 a capsule a day so that's a fairly low dose that I may be happy to take long term to just very gently support detoxification.
I could open the capsule and mix 1/3 in glass of water 3 times a day for sure. I took that bigger dose because it is basically for the same money 2x more ALA.. I was taking anywhere around 1 to 15mg of iodine. I have lugol solution 1 drop = 1,36mg of iodine. I can take like 2 drops and not feel anything, but if I try 5-10 or more drops I feel really weird. The same feeling like when I was making hydrogen rich water with citric acid and magnesium rods.. I think that is the feeling of high oxidative stress.. For selenium I was taking 200mcg like forever. Now I have 100mcg capsules so I take only 100mcg.. When I first started with selenium same thing. Like detox/herx reaction probably from detoxing mercury.. So ok I will try 1x600mg pill in 3 doses and will see if I feel anything.. For bile flow I was taking all kinds herbs, TUDCA, ox bile as well. Nothing helped. The only thing that helped was moving to croatia for 3 months lol...
In that link you posted it shows the plasma half life of alpha tocotrienol as over 4 hours. Some will still be present in plasma for much longer than that. Also don't forget where much of it is going, into cells. It can still be present in cells long after plasma levels have been depleted.
Bioavailability of tocotrienols: evidence in human studies
Available data from five studies suggested that tocotrienols may reach its target destination through an alternative pathway despite its low affinity for α-tocopherol transfer protein. This was evident when studies reported considerable amount of tocotrienols detected in HDL particles and adipose tissues after oral consumption.
The biological role of tocotrienols, as minor components in vitamin E, has been largely underestimated despite studies showing their unique physiological functions.
Collective studies found that tocotrienols exhibit interesting biological activities not shared by tocopherols, including neuroprotective, radio-protective, anti-cancer, anti-inflammatory and lipid lowering properties [2–8].
Another reason that hurdles the advancement of tocotrienols is the lack of understanding on the bioavailability and behavior of tocotrienols in the human system.
Fairus et al.[21] reported that tocotrienols were transported in triacylglycerol (TAG)-rich fractions containing chylomicrons and VLDL, LDL and HDL cholesterols after administration of TRF at 1011 mg in healthy subjects. In this study, α-, γ- and δ-tocotrienols were detected in both plasma and lipoproteins in appreciable amount though α-tocotrienol emerged as the major homologue detected. Unlike tocopherols which were distributed equally in all the lipoprotein fractions, tocotrienols were mainly detected in the HDL cholesterol at 4 to 8 hours before clearance. This observation suggests that tocotrienols may go through alternative metabolism pathway which warrants further investigation.
Although the pharmacokinetics of tocotrienols are distinctly different from tocopherols which are well studied and remained longer in blood circulation, biodistribution study showed considerable accumulation of tocotrienols in vital organs.
aTTP preferentially binds to alpha tocopherol so it's best to avoid taking tocotrienols with large amounts of tocopherols. I see large doses of tocopherols as undesirable anyway. Tocomin Suprabio contains 9mg alpha tocopherol which I see as an appropriate dose. It probably reduces the absorption of the 40mg of tocotrienols but I don't see a big problem with this as the tocotrienol dose is high enough to accommodate for reduced absorption.
I'm not sure if you've already come across them but you might be interested in looking into the Wolff–Chaikoff effect, the Plummer effect and the Jod-Basedow phenomenon. It can put a lot of stress on the thyroid consuming excessive amounts of iodine and selenium.
I never supplement with trace elements. I avoid kelp too. I think other seaweeds are a good idea in small amounts, I like adding a bit of seaweed to soup. I get molybdenum from legumes and selenium and iodine from fish, both of which I consume frequently.
It seems to me that there is a very high probability that you have created your thyroid problems yourself by supplementing iodine and selenium.
Excess iodine will turn you into an eunuch.
"Overall results revealed that regular consumption of iodine in excess impairs reproductive functions in adult male rats depending on the dose and duration of its exposure through different mechanisms. Excess iodine accumulates in the testis which results in generation of reactive oxygen species (ROS) as evidenced by higher lipid peroxidation level as well as an imbalance in the pro-/antioxidant status inhibiting the activity of ∆(5) 3β- hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (HSD) and 17β-HSD resulting to reduced synthesis of testosterone that causes structural and functional changes of the testis." Effect of Excess Iodine on Oxidative Stress Markers, Steroidogenic-Enzyme Activities, Testicular Morphology, and Functions in Adult Male Rats - PubMed (nih.gov)