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The relationship between Vitamin A, Copper, Ceruloplasmin and Thyroid

#181 · January 16, 2024, 4:25 am

@alexm I was wondering if Charlie from Ray Peat forum is just trolling or Dr.Smith gave him some money to push people his direction hehe.

#182 · January 17, 2024, 8:51 am

@jiri Nah I think he just fully believes in GS's work/theories because its solving his health issues.

#183 · January 17, 2024, 9:53 am

Quote from AlexM on January 14, 2024, 5:20 pm

Quote from Leo on January 12, 2024, 9:18 am

I'm sorry if I've already asked this but I'll try again: is areas of the body resistant to tanning related to copper/melanin deficiency? I know MSH receptors are involved.

With copper supplementation I start tanning very nicely, when I just take zinc or manganese I don't tan at all and look very pale but also don't burn.

Interesting. I have eaten quite a bit of nuts lately and I have this feeling that my tan just dont fade like it normally do in winter.

@alexm may I ask you, are you a male or a female, and what is your age?

#184 · January 17, 2024, 10:47 am

@inger 27 male

#185 · February 12, 2024, 7:41 am

Quote from Jiří on February 12, 2024, 7:41 am
@alexm Really like this comment from Gbolduev. I wish he was still around..

"all hormones go down with aging. ON hair tests of aged or sick people estrogen influence is lower than progesterone. Sodium is lower than potassium usually. Meaning that progesterone is higher than estrogen, and that is understandable, we don’t bind copper. Estrogen in blood causes copper to be bound. One of the reasons for copper not to bind is high CO2 levels. Copper lowers blood PH and if you have reps acidosis copper will be stored in the liver. also, Iron will be stored in the liver, since Iron raises metabolism and body does not want that with high CO2
That is exactly why people’s livers are full of copper and iron when they die.
calcium lowers thyroid that is why, zinc increases thyroid, copper lowers thyroid. Peat is totally wrong on this. Calcium lowers potassium in the cell zinc increases potassium. Fast oxidizers have high potassium in the cell and you called them not zinc deficient. Potassium is what makes the cell sensitive to the thyroid hormone. So, when you take calcium, potassium will go down in the cell, and thyroid will have to produce more and convert more t4 to t3. Peat says thyroid goes up, WRONG.
If your thyroid is high and potassium is higher than calcium in the cell then body will use ceruloplasmin to cap off the thyroid, since copper same as calcium lower potassium in the cell. that is why for fast oxidizers taking thyroid will move ceruloplasmin. Copper is there to lower thyroid. To cap it off. SO when thyroid goes up copper will be raised to try to cap it. But if you have adrenal problems thyroid will be turned off with turning off conversion of T4 to T3
For most people, it has nothing to do with thyroid, the actual gland is fine. It has to do with subclinical hypo which can be from either low potassium or potassium not entering the cell, or too much calcium in the cell, pushing potassium out.
By the way Cortisol also makes the cell sensitive to thyroid. So if stressed your temps go up not down. Cortisol raises potassium in the cell, zinc raises potassium in the cell for slow oxidizers. For fast it is the opposite zinc lowers potassium.
That is why if you are deficient in zinc your cortisol will be upped to raise potassium in the cell instead of zinc. and that is why when you take zinc, it lowers cortisol. Cortisol supports thyroid in this case, and to lower cortisol in this case is like turning off your thyroid
calcium increases sodium potassium ratio, since it lowers potassium. So, when people take vitamin D they can feel better than ratio of sodium to potassium in the cell rises. But it is wrong for slow oxidizer, since although the ratio gets better, metabolism gets slower. That is why you feel so tired if you spend a day on the beach and most people take a nap after (slow oxidizers of course) Fast oxidizers get more energetic since their sugar goes up in blood from the sun.
For thyroid to work you need adrenals that can handle it for once. Then you need actual thyroid hormone Т4 then you need conversion from Т4 to Т3. Then you need transport into the cell which is IRON. And then you need potassium and cortisol to receive it. If you have low glutathione for some reason, infection or toxic metals, then all your selenium will be used for detox to recycle existing glutathione. And the conversion of Т4 to Т3 will be down. This is just one example of low thyroid. Another example if you have acidosis. During resp acidosis potassium goes out of the cell and that lowers thyroid, calcium enters the cell, since it turns into ionized calcium from total calcium.
But notice that I say this or that lowers thyroid. The actual gland production in these cases could be increased, I am talking about the effect of thyroid hormone on the actual cell, I don’t care how much hormones thyroid gland produces, if calcium is really high in the cell, it won’t be able to enter the cell. That is why people can have high T4 high T3 and body will be asking for more by raising TSH even higher, since calcium does not allow these hormones to enter the cell, or they are missing potassium or they are out of iron zinc selenium."

@alexm Really like this comment from Gbolduev. I wish he was still around..

"all hormones go down with aging. ON hair tests of aged or sick people estrogen influence is lower than progesterone. Sodium is lower than potassium usually. Meaning that progesterone is higher than estrogen, and that is understandable, we don’t bind copper. Estrogen in blood causes copper to be bound. One of the reasons for copper not to bind is high CO2 levels. Copper lowers blood PH and if you have reps acidosis copper will be stored in the liver. also, Iron will be stored in the liver, since Iron raises metabolism and body does not want that with high CO2
That is exactly why people’s livers are full of copper and iron when they die.
calcium lowers thyroid that is why, zinc increases thyroid, copper lowers thyroid. Peat is totally wrong on this. Calcium lowers potassium in the cell zinc increases potassium. Fast oxidizers have high potassium in the cell and you called them not zinc deficient. Potassium is what makes the cell sensitive to the thyroid hormone. So, when you take calcium, potassium will go down in the cell, and thyroid will have to produce more and convert more t4 to t3. Peat says thyroid goes up, WRONG.
If your thyroid is high and potassium is higher than calcium in the cell then body will use ceruloplasmin to cap off the thyroid, since copper same as calcium lower potassium in the cell. that is why for fast oxidizers taking thyroid will move ceruloplasmin. Copper is there to lower thyroid. To cap it off. SO when thyroid goes up copper will be raised to try to cap it. But if you have adrenal problems thyroid will be turned off with turning off conversion of T4 to T3
For most people, it has nothing to do with thyroid, the actual gland is fine. It has to do with subclinical hypo which can be from either low potassium or potassium not entering the cell, or too much calcium in the cell, pushing potassium out.
By the way Cortisol also makes the cell sensitive to thyroid. So if stressed your temps go up not down. Cortisol raises potassium in the cell, zinc raises potassium in the cell for slow oxidizers. For fast it is the opposite zinc lowers potassium.
That is why if you are deficient in zinc your cortisol will be upped to raise potassium in the cell instead of zinc. and that is why when you take zinc, it lowers cortisol. Cortisol supports thyroid in this case, and to lower cortisol in this case is like turning off your thyroid
calcium increases sodium potassium ratio, since it lowers potassium. So, when people take vitamin D they can feel better than ratio of sodium to potassium in the cell rises. But it is wrong for slow oxidizer, since although the ratio gets better, metabolism gets slower. That is why you feel so tired if you spend a day on the beach and most people take a nap after (slow oxidizers of course) Fast oxidizers get more energetic since their sugar goes up in blood from the sun.
For thyroid to work you need adrenals that can handle it for once. Then you need actual thyroid hormone Т4 then you need conversion from Т4 to Т3. Then you need transport into the cell which is IRON. And then you need potassium and cortisol to receive it. If you have low glutathione for some reason, infection or toxic metals, then all your selenium will be used for detox to recycle existing glutathione. And the conversion of Т4 to Т3 will be down. This is just one example of low thyroid. Another example if you have acidosis. During resp acidosis potassium goes out of the cell and that lowers thyroid, calcium enters the cell, since it turns into ionized calcium from total calcium.
But notice that I say this or that lowers thyroid. The actual gland production in these cases could be increased, I am talking about the effect of thyroid hormone on the actual cell, I don’t care how much hormones thyroid gland produces, if calcium is really high in the cell, it won’t be able to enter the cell. That is why people can have high T4 high T3 and body will be asking for more by raising TSH even higher, since calcium does not allow these hormones to enter the cell, or they are missing potassium or they are out of iron zinc selenium."

Ourania and Andrew B have reacted to this post.

#186 · February 13, 2024, 5:03 am

@jiri Yeah thats some good info but also pretty well known in the HTMA space that calcium blocks potassium from getting into the cells causing hypothyroid thats why they use CA:K ratio to assess the thyroid and oxidation rate

#187 · February 13, 2024, 5:12 am

@alexm I think that it is my case. That my thyroid is low on purpose for sure. I really need to do htma again in trace elements and follow their program. It just I don't know how to do it from Czech Republic..

#188 · February 13, 2024, 5:21 am

https://www.mineralstate.co.uk/ you can use this website I think maybe? But you would have to send to the UK. It would be good if more people on here could try TEI's programme so they can see for themselves that Vitamin A is not a toxin.

#189 · February 13, 2024, 7:23 am

Quote from AlexM on February 13, 2024, 5:21 am

https://www.mineralstate.co.uk/ you can use this website I think maybe? But you would have to send to the UK. It would be good if more people on here could try TEI's programme so they can see for themselves that Vitamin A is not a toxin.

Then what do you say about gbolduev recommending the low vit A diet? Is that only for slow oxidizers? But you said slow oxidizers benefit from some vit A. I'm not seeing him say that anywhere. I mean he did say you should never supplement with the end product like retinoic acid, but he never suggested retinol or beta carotene.

#190 · February 13, 2024, 7:53 am

@alexm I don't understand. I will send hair to UK and they will send it to the US? TEI lab is in the US right? When I was sending hair to ARL it was directily to the US Phoenix.. Why would I send to UK?? The problem is I don't need any practitioner. All I need are results with what should I take.. Btw I was not ordering ARL supplements.. I was taking somewhat similar amounts from supps that I can buy here and they are cheaper from good brands.. How expensive are supplements from TEI for lets say 4-5 months to the next testing? ALso the problem is I am taking euthyrox now T4... Which can change HTMA results a lot.. I will do blood tests to see how that T4 is working and will see. It is so crazy you need to be stress free to fix this health problems, but how can you be stress free when you have the health problems, stress from life heh.. I need to move somewhere where I can fully relax and at the same time have a job that is not killing my body. Then I can fully commit to healing, following HTMA program 100%.. RIght now I think it is waste of money..

The relationship between Vitamin A, Copper, Ceruloplasmin and Thyroid

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