I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Wahl's talking vitamin A
The medical field in Japan and Europe considers a patient to have vitamin B12 deficiency if testing reveals levels below 500 pg/mL to 550 pg/mL. Meanwhile, the low end of “normal” in America is 200pg/mL to 350 pg/mL.
Many experts disagree with America’s low vitamin B12 deficiency threshold, recommending treatment for patients testing below 450 pg/mL, especially if these patients also present other B12 deficiency markers, such as elevated urinary methylmalonic acid, holotranscobalamin, and/or homocysteine.
Some researchers speculate that Japan’s lower rates of dementia and Alzheimer’s disease may be due, in part, to its standards for B12 deficiency.
Quote from tim on March 9, 2021, 2:28 amB12 deficiency and insufficiency is common enough to be called an epidemic and it's effects are serious. It's also complex to diagnose. There isn't any downside to high dose B12 supplementation, toxicity is very unlikely and it's cheap. So I see a lot of upside with little downside for people to give supplementation a go.
With regard to the claim that it did not significantly help anyone on the Phoenix Rising forum did you see a lot of posts saying it didn't help at all? I saw a post on there where someone was also taking vitamin A and cod liver oil, that's not going to help. I thought the common belief there was not so much in B12 deficiency but rather problems with metabolizing folate and B12.
@tim-2 my hope is we would be always getting enough B-12 with consuming enough meat...
Quote from rockarolla on March 10, 2021, 10:34 amQuote from tim on March 9, 2021, 2:28 amB12 deficiency and insufficiency is common enough to be called an epidemic and it's effects are serious. It's also complex to diagnose. There isn't any downside to high dose B12 supplementation, toxicity is very unlikely and it's cheap. So I see a lot of upside with little downside for people to give supplementation a go.
With regard to the claim that it did not significantly help anyone on the Phoenix Rising forum did you see a lot of posts saying it didn't help at all? I saw a post on there where someone was also taking vitamin A and cod liver oil, that's not going to help. I thought the common belief there was not so much in B12 deficiency but rather problems with metabolizing folate and B12.
@tim-2 my hope is we would be always getting enough B-12 with consuming enough meat...
It appears that as your surfaces get goofed up (with age and autoimmunity) your ability to absorb wanes. In the olden days, I guess then you would start having huge blood cells and they would know that you were B12 deficient. But now because some of the B vities are supplemented in foods (like with folate etc) that does not happen anymore. Now, typically, the first sign is neurological. !
For many people eating meat daily is enough but for many it's not. There are so many things that can lead to inadequate B12 absorption. B12 is the polar opposite of Vit A, present in minute amounts in our foods, hard to absorb and yet nontoxic when injected in megadoses.
Legumes contain mostly the active form of folate. Folic acid is either low or non existent in unfortified foods.
Meat contains a mix of hydroxocobalamin, methylcobalamin, and adenosylcobalamin. Adenosylcobalamin is the form that is stored in the liver. Methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin are the metabolically active forms.
My conclusion is that methylcobalamin is better than cyanocobalamin but for many it may not make much difference.
I believe that the cobalamin fraction in B12 supplements is produced by bacteria rather than synthetically which means that B12 supplements shouldn't contain unnatural enantiomers as are found in synthetic vitamins.
Results
The studies reviewed provide evidence that all supplemental or food-derived B12 forms are reduced to a core cobalamin molecule, which converts to the intracellular active forms: MeCbl and AdCbl, in a ratio not influenced by the form of B12 ingested. The methyl and adenosyl components of supplemental MeCbl and AdCbl are cleaved inside cells and are not used in the synthesis of intracellular MeCbl and AdCbl, respectively. However, the overall bioavailability of each form of supplemental B12 may be influenced by many factors such as gastrointestinal pathologies, age, and genetics. Polymorphisms on B12-related pathways may affect the efficiency of absorption, blood transport, cellular uptake, and intracellular transformations.
Conclusions
Supplementing with any of the nature bioidentical forms of B12 (MeCbl, OHCbl, and/or AdCbl) is preferred instead of the use of CNCbl, owing to their superior bioavailability and safety. For the majority of the population, all B12 forms may likely have similar bioavailabilities and physiological effects; thus, it makes sense to employ the least-expensive form of B12, such as MeCbl. Individuals with particular single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) affecting B12 assimilation may raise their B12 status more efficiently with 1 or more particular forms of vitamin B12. However, because those types of SNPs are not currently reported in commercial tests, individuals may require either a trial-and-error approach by supplementing with 1 particular form of B12 at a time, or they might simply use a supplement with a combination of all 3 naturally occurring forms of B12 that are commercially available for a better chance of achieving faster clinical results. That approach may or may not offset genetic polymorphisms involving B12 metabolism and related pathways.
Quote from lil chick on March 11, 2021, 9:10 amoh is that best @jiri? sigh... so do b3 and b6 get to be problematic then?
Every time I type into cronometer.com my diet I have a lot of B3 and B6.. So taking even more with supplements is maybe not so smart..
@tim-2 Yes biotin and B5 can be also benefitial. Ah it would be nice to have B complex without B3 and B6..