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All Roads Lead To Anhydroretinol: The Sneaky Vitamin A metabolite that causes Vitamin A Toxicity
Quote from AlexM on April 8, 2024, 11:44 am@janelle525 The Para Pack supplement was specifically designed to increase the oxidation rate in slow oxidisers, it is the opposite of sym pack for fast oxidisers which was designed to lower the oxidation rate.
Why is being in slow or very slow oxidation bad, because it means energy production in the body is low due to reduced thyroid and adrenal activity which then leads to you accumulating heavy metals, toxins, pathogens etc, which then eventually leads to diseases like cancer etc.
So I would say if you are in very slow oxidation that is a lot worse than taking a supplement that has 2kiu Vit A which is helping raise the oxidation rate.
There is a relationship between Vitamin A, copper, ceruloplasmin and the thyroid but I believe they all start working properly when one is at operating at a higher metabolic rate rather than being in a slow oxidation state. And yes Vitamin A is one of the things that raises the oxidation rate so it is helping increase metabolism (if you are not overdosing it and it is being used correctly).
Before I started TEI my potassium levels had gone down to 1 on an HTMA which is terrible and I've seen other low Vitamin A people who have been on the detox for a couple of years with also very low potassium levels on their HTMA. If potassium is low on a hairtest it means potassium isn't getting into the cells which means your thyroid is not working at all.
Why does it raise the oxidation rate though? By what mechanism does it do that? That would suggest the people who eat plenty of vitamin A (not excessive) have better oxidation than the people who eat low vitamin A. Does that pan out in real life? Does everyone embarking on a low vitamin A diet have low thyroid because of it? Ray Peat said thyroid health comes first then you can have more vitamin A, not the other way around.
@janelle525 Ray seems to never cared about thyroid health. I never heard him talk about fixing the root cause of low thyroid. He was all about taking hormones like candy. Basically like mainstream medical system. They also don't care about the cause of issues. They just patch things up. Ray was patching with hormones, stimulants, sugar. That's why "Ray Peat style" doesn't work long term for people.. You will feel more energy at first, but long term it is disaster..
Quote from Jiří on April 8, 2024, 1:07 pm@janelle525 Ray seems to never cared about thyroid health. I never heard him talk about fixing the root cause of low thyroid. He was all about taking hormones like candy. Basically like mainstream medical system. They also don't care about the cause of issues. They just patch things up. Ray was patching with hormones, stimulants, sugar. That's why "Ray Peat style" doesn't work long term for people.. You will feel more energy at first, but long term it is disaster..
Definitely not endorsing Ray, but I believe him about the vitamin A and thyroid thing. That too much does interfere. The jury is still out on whether decreasing it super low will increase thyroid though.
Quote from Janelle525 on April 8, 2024, 12:40 pmQuote from AlexM on April 8, 2024, 11:44 am@janelle525 The Para Pack supplement was specifically designed to increase the oxidation rate in slow oxidisers, it is the opposite of sym pack for fast oxidisers which was designed to lower the oxidation rate.
Why is being in slow or very slow oxidation bad, because it means energy production in the body is low due to reduced thyroid and adrenal activity which then leads to you accumulating heavy metals, toxins, pathogens etc, which then eventually leads to diseases like cancer etc.
So I would say if you are in very slow oxidation that is a lot worse than taking a supplement that has 2kiu Vit A which is helping raise the oxidation rate.
There is a relationship between Vitamin A, copper, ceruloplasmin and the thyroid but I believe they all start working properly when one is at operating at a higher metabolic rate rather than being in a slow oxidation state. And yes Vitamin A is one of the things that raises the oxidation rate so it is helping increase metabolism (if you are not overdosing it and it is being used correctly).
Before I started TEI my potassium levels had gone down to 1 on an HTMA which is terrible and I've seen other low Vitamin A people who have been on the detox for a couple of years with also very low potassium levels on their HTMA. If potassium is low on a hairtest it means potassium isn't getting into the cells which means your thyroid is not working at all.
Why does it raise the oxidation rate though? By what mechanism does it do that? That would suggest the people who eat plenty of vitamin A (not excessive) have better oxidation than the people who eat low vitamin A. Does that pan out in real life? Does everyone embarking on a low vitamin A diet have low thyroid because of it? Ray Peat said thyroid health comes first then you can have more vitamin A, not the other way around.
@janelle525 I'm not exactly sure but probably best to email TEI and ask them and they should have a better answer than me.
And also you are hyper focusing on Vitamin A, it's not all about one nutrient it's about how the nutrients all work together.
And no if you are Vitamin A toxic in the liver from not being able to use it, you will have poor bile and low thyroid so yeah going low Vit A can help fix those issues for some people.
Anyway all good I've only seen my thyroid health and general health only improve from doing TEIs programme so I don't really need you telling me otherwise.
Quote from AlexM on April 8, 2024, 2:38 pmQuote from Janelle525 on April 8, 2024, 12:40 pmQuote from AlexM on April 8, 2024, 11:44 am@janelle525 The Para Pack supplement was specifically designed to increase the oxidation rate in slow oxidisers, it is the opposite of sym pack for fast oxidisers which was designed to lower the oxidation rate.
Why is being in slow or very slow oxidation bad, because it means energy production in the body is low due to reduced thyroid and adrenal activity which then leads to you accumulating heavy metals, toxins, pathogens etc, which then eventually leads to diseases like cancer etc.
So I would say if you are in very slow oxidation that is a lot worse than taking a supplement that has 2kiu Vit A which is helping raise the oxidation rate.
There is a relationship between Vitamin A, copper, ceruloplasmin and the thyroid but I believe they all start working properly when one is at operating at a higher metabolic rate rather than being in a slow oxidation state. And yes Vitamin A is one of the things that raises the oxidation rate so it is helping increase metabolism (if you are not overdosing it and it is being used correctly).
Before I started TEI my potassium levels had gone down to 1 on an HTMA which is terrible and I've seen other low Vitamin A people who have been on the detox for a couple of years with also very low potassium levels on their HTMA. If potassium is low on a hairtest it means potassium isn't getting into the cells which means your thyroid is not working at all.
Why does it raise the oxidation rate though? By what mechanism does it do that? That would suggest the people who eat plenty of vitamin A (not excessive) have better oxidation than the people who eat low vitamin A. Does that pan out in real life? Does everyone embarking on a low vitamin A diet have low thyroid because of it? Ray Peat said thyroid health comes first then you can have more vitamin A, not the other way around.
@janelle525 I'm not exactly sure but probably best to email TEI and ask them and they should have a better answer than me.
And also you are hyper focusing on Vitamin A, it's not all about one nutrient it's about how the nutrients all work together.
And no if you are Vitamin A toxic in the liver from not being able to use it, you will have poor bile and low thyroid so yeah going low Vit A can help fix those issues for some people.
Anyway all good I've only seen my thyroid health and general health only improve from doing TEIs programme so I don't really need you telling me otherwise.
You mean kinda like how food is not just about one nutrient and has multiple things? Why not just eat food? I'm sure you will say that they formulated the supplement based on hair tests. But even gboldeuv said to never take something everyday and to take the least amount of stuff because then it will age you. Anyway I'm not trying to convince you, it's about the discussion.
We do absorb lectins and different blood types do react differently to certain lectins. Most lectins probably react with all blood types though.
The actual distribution of blood types among hunter gatherers, pastoralists and agriculturalists is not what the blood type theory claims.
Blood type does determine susceptibility to different diseases.
I don't think the Blood Type diet has much merit.
Many people do like to eat a lot of red meat. If you test serum ferritin in many of them it'll be sky high. Iron overload is not always caused directly by red meat consumption but some will have hereditary hemochromatosis.
Many that love high fat dairy have subclinical Hypervitaminosis A.
Some people love to eat liver too..
It seems that instincts are not that reliable in many.
Having said that though some people may legitimately need more red meat for some reason like for carnitine, zinc, iron, taurine, creatine, riboflavin or B12.
In the past most people were infected with Ancylostoma duodenale the old world hookworm. It drinks a lot of blood. My opinion on hookworms is that they are symbiotic beneficial parasites. They have a strong vitamin A and iron lowering effect. They have potent autoimmunity reducing effects. The instinct to eat more red meat than is healthy may be due to evolving with this parasite (along with leeches and biting insects).
It's serum ferritin that determines iron stores. I see iron as similar to vitamin A, you don't want to be deficient but you also don't want much in excess of sufficiency levels. I see optimal serum ferritin as being about 50 - 70 mcg/l in a healthy person.
Yeah for anyone depleting vitamin A it's key to keep ascorbate levels up. Once one has depleted vitamin A dietary sources of vitamin C should be sufficient.
@tim-2 yeah things like parasites are what most "evolutionary consistent" people like Saladino who push this insane diet to average people are missing.. Huge difference if you live in a wild exposed to ALL elements of wild nature all the time or you live in super clean and sterile environment and you are just trying to mimic the diet.. It's just pure stupidity.. "organ, fatty dairy, fruits of all kinds of different colors have the most macro and micronutrients" so lets eat them 30 times a day for the rest of our life.." heh.. I really can't wait for his video within 5 years "sorry guys yes I was wrong about eating so much vit A all the time. Just keep it lower and you will be ok.." Insane..
Btw I think that apolactofferin can be our new modern parasite. It will keel stealing iron that is floating around in the blood that is not bound to transport proteins..
I once had a cruise romance with a cool guy who was a ND and he had infested himself with hookworms. He´s health had improved for it. He told me he had to be careful to not lose he´s worms - he avoided garlic etc. I thought it was super interesting.
It makes sense that meat hunger has evolved in cultures where those worms were frequent, the hemochromatosis gene is mostly found in people with ancestry from Ireland/Scotland and they used to eat a lot of fish too, which would have made them at risk for worm infestation.
Yep. Some of them do do regular blood donations but that won't deplete vitamin A like hookworms do. Blood donations aren't as good because it's a sudden big loss vs daily loss of blood.
I've posted before about how the whole Paleo diet scene is based on very incorrect foundations. The influencers create this idea for people that grains and legumes were not eaten during the Paleolithic when they probably were in significant amounts. We've also probably made significant dietary adaptations since the start of the Neolithic. Dairy is the only non Paleolithic food yet they often eat it. They seem to deny science and history that contradicts their narrative.
Meat + Dairy + Fruit + Organ meats. That's Saladino's diet in a nutshell yeah? So gross. It contradicts our physiological needs as well as evidence from the Paleolithic and like you point out even if it was Paleolithically correct it's not adjusted for the modern lifestyle.
I don't use Traditional Chinese Medicine concepts that often but they align with my understanding of nutrition and I think TCM has a lot of value. Saladino's diet is basically the inverse of TCM dietary recommendations. One has to wonder if he actually eats the diet that he preaches.
Quote from Janelle525 on April 8, 2024, 4:41 pmYou mean kinda like how food is not just about one nutrient and has multiple things? Why not just eat food? I'm sure you will say that they formulated the supplement based on hair tests. But even gboldeuv said to never take something everyday and to take the least amount of stuff because then it will age you. Anyway I'm not trying to convince you, it's about the discussion.
@janelle525 Well because most people can't fix their HTMA levels/patterns and oxidation rate just by diet alone, hence why they made the supplements to address those issues.
Gbolduev was recommending TEIs programme to people because he knew it worked solving peoples health issues... He would be able to answer you answer question about how Vit A raises the oxidation rate if he was still around.
When people on here act like everyone can get all the nutrients they need from diet I find it cringe. Slow oxidisers have poor digestion so they're not obtaining the nutrients from food like they should be doing. That is another thing the parapack did is it also improved how I felt from eating foods too.
Yeah and when we speak about this, your questions about why you shouldn't take it never end so it is largely a waste of time for both of us. So let's not continue I'm finding it annoying now.