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Another villain - Tocotrienol?
Quote from salt on July 5, 2021, 2:19 amCoconut oil doesn't have much tocotrienols. You would get much more from eating things like brown rice or whole wheat.
Based on the ratio of tocotrienols and tocopherols and the total vitamin E content in cooked oat, I got the value around 0.07 mg per 100g.
https://www.cerealsgrains.org/publications/cc/backissues/1995/Documents/72_21.pdf
ratios are taken from here (table 1)
If something ends in NOL or OL or ROL etc does that mean it is detoxed like alcohol? Just a thought that these things might use the same (clogged) pathway. It could be that normally they would not be a problem.
I also think that in general the fat-cleanup pathway is overloaded, (the bile pathway I'm meaning, as Jenny speaks of). Hubs and I have slowly moved to be lower and lower fat as the 2 years passed. We started out fat-loving wapfers.
Personally, when it comes to taste, butter has always been the only fat I *like*, and I do still eat a tiny bit of it, for instance, a 1/4 teaspoon to saute a pan of mushrooms. My preferred way of doing dairy (if I wasn't lazy) is to skim the milk for drinking in , say, coffee, and process the fat into butter to eat in tiny amounts. Ferment the butter milk (which is also a form of skim).
I would guess at this point (and this is strange for me) that the ultra-processed industrial oils used in food products are now my other fat, LOL. Because of junk foods such as potato chips and cookies. Those fats at least don't taste bad. (oh the crazyness of this VA life). I do NOT eat deep fry restaurant oils, ever ever. (barf)
Quote from lil chick on July 5, 2021, 8:39 amIf something ends in NOL or OL or ROL etc does that mean it is detoxed like alcohol? Just a thought that these things might use the same (clogged) pathway. It could be that normally they would not be a problem.
I also think that in general the fat-cleanup pathway is overloaded, (the bile pathway I'm meaning, as Jenny speaks of). Hubs and I have slowly moved to be lower and lower fat as the 2 years passed. We started out fat-loving wapfers.
Personally, when it comes to taste, butter has always been the only fat I *like*, and I do still eat a tiny bit of it, for instance, a 1/4 teaspoon to saute a pan of mushrooms. My preferred way of doing dairy (if I wasn't lazy) is to skim the milk for drinking in , say, coffee, and process the fat into butter to eat in tiny amounts. Ferment the butter milk (which is also a form of skim).
I would guess at this point (and this is strange for me) that the ultra-processed industrial oils used in food products are now my other fat, LOL. Because of junk foods such as potato chips and cookies. Those fats at least don't taste bad. (oh the crazyness of this VA life). I do NOT eat deep fry restaurant oils, ever ever. (barf)
Alcohols in chemistry end in -ol. If the alcohol is unsaturated (has a double bond), it can be easily oxidized to aldehyde and further. Retinol (or carotene), being oxidized, turns into retinaldehyde, which then needs ALDH to become retinoic acid and then leave the body through glucuronization. Tocotrienol is also unsaturated and can be oxidized to aldehyde. So yeah, you're right... Probably the problem is that the tocotrienols are converted to aldehydes and overload ALDH. Although aldehydes are found naturally in many foods, for example coffee. But it seems like people here don't react to coffee. PUFA in the body can also oxidize to aldehydes. So there is something more here. Perhaps the aldehydes from tocotrienols are much more toxic than the others...
This study says that the adsorption of tocotrienols is increased when eaten with food. hmm ... I remember how I seemed to react to cocoa butter when I ate it with food. But I could eat this separately. It still puzzled me a lot and I thought that the problem was different, but perhaps the problem was still in this...
It is also indicated here that the adsorption of at least gamma-tocotrienol drops sharply after a certain value.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/mc.22291
"Study investigated the ability of docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) alone and in combination with gamma-tocotrienol (γT3) to eliminate aldehyde dehydrogenase positive (ALDH+) cells and to inhibit mammosphere formation, biomarker and functional assay for tumor initiating cells (TICs), respectively, in human triple negative breast cancer cells (TNBCs), and investigated possible mechanisms of action."
"γT3 alone and in combination with DHA reduced ALDH+ TNBCs, up-regulated SHP-1 protein levels, and suppressed Stat-3 signaling. "
Interestingly, when I took high doses of vitamin A, I didn't notice anything, other than skin peeling. My health problems began only six months later, then I started taking fish oil. It looks like following medical advice is a surefire way to end up in the grave. Is anyone on this forum still taking "omega 3" ?)
hehe, the majority of the "research" around fish oil industry is a prime example of market oriented "science"
https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/releases/2013/07/omega-three-fatty-acids-risk-prostate-cancer.html
Published in the online edition of the Journal of the National Cancer Institute, the latest findings indicate that high concentrations of EPA, DPA and DHA – the three anti-inflammatory and metabolically related fatty acids derived from fatty fish and fish-oil supplements – are associated with a 71 percent increased risk of high-grade prostate cancer. The study also found a 44 percent increase in the risk of low-grade prostate cancer and an overall 43 percent increase in risk for all prostate cancers.
...
That study showed no benefit from selenium intake and an increase in prostate cancers in men who took vitamin E.
one of the main reasons is omega-3 based antitumor IFN-γ suppression:
Omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids impair in vivo interferon- gamma responsiveness via diminished receptor signaling
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15633108/
So, I did some research on tocotrienols on the internet and found that the content in foods varies greatly across studies. However, the same goes for oxalates and carotenoids. I do not know why it is so. Maybe that's why people can eat certain foods when moving to another country?
So I just made a list of tocotrienol foods. Main Sources: Annatto, palm oil, coconut oil, cocoa butter, safflower oil, olive oil, barley, rice (don't know about white rice), oats, corn, wheat, rye (usually the least), hazelnuts. Also eggs(https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18997413/), soy (and soybean oil), flaxseed oil, sea buckthorn, cranberries, plums, kiwi, onions contain it. Dr. Tan also lists foods such as sources of tocotrienols in an interview: lard, cauliflower, peas, broccoli, carrots, avocados, apricots, grapes (and grape seed oil), almonds, cashews, macadamia, pistachios, and some meats. But I have not been able to verify this. Regarding meat, I only found this study (https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/jf00066a050), which found no tocotrienols in meat.
So are walnuts in the clear or are they in the same class, just not listed? I was thinking about walnuts to get some E and trace minerals
Quote from Armin on July 8, 2021, 11:16 amSo are walnuts in the clear or are they in the same class, just not listed? I was thinking about walnuts to get some E and trace minerals
I have not seen them listed as sources of tocotrienols anywhere. If you're interested, you can try to get the full version of this study. I am not an American and this is problematic for me. Unfortunately, they didn't write how much delta-tocotrienol is in walnuts. If you find out, let us know
The ancient Egyptians are known to be in poor health. They suffered from atherosclerosis, autoimmune diseases and bad teeth. However, I looked at what the ancient Egyptians ate:
The main crops that provided the staples of the ancient Egyptian diet were:
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- Barley (used for making bread and beer)
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- Wheat
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- Garlic
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- Onion (especially green onions)
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- Lentils
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- Peas
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- Beans
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- Cucumbers
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- Lettuce
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- Cabbage
It really doesn't feel like a high VA diet(this does not mean that I deny the toxicity of the VA, it is obvious to me). So there must be something else. Interestingly, barley - the main product of the ancient Egyptians - is in the top 5 foods with tocotrienols ...