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ascites, the swelling around the liver
@audrey The eggs dont cause cholestasis unless you dont tolerate them. All the signs are you have improved bile flow and got stronger detox. Cholestasis is an impairment of bile flow so something slowing it down still. Something additional now needed from the list. I suggest small increase in cruciferous vegetables if tolerated.
Thank you @andrew-b. Over all I do feel I am doing quite well, tolerating more and more, adding some new things in. I do think I might have some sulphur issues with 2 eggs, so I think for now I will stick to one egg and slowly try some broccoli or cabbage (for the fibre!)
(Edited) I haven't had broccoli for 4 years lol
Haha, same @audrey! I tried broccoli last week in a tofu stir-fry, after only buying pale green cabbage and cauliflower for 4+ years now too, and handled it just fine. 😊 Let us know how it goes for you!
@puddleduck, I think I'll try a bit of tofu too 😉
Quote from Jessica2 on June 13, 2023, 3:58 am@joe I don't believe it's slowing down the detox. I base this on my liver enzymes. While I was on low VA and ate mostly beans rice and meat, my liver enzymes rose 3 times the level they were before. When I added eggs in, my liver enzymes again went back down. Meri's work with her patients show this too. If eggs stress the liver, then why do real liver markers improve?
I also feel great. If you want to get me to believe that you feel great while having cholestasis and fatty liver but you feel terrible when you're detoxing, so you should probably actively want to feel terrible rather than great to make sure you're detoxing... I don't know man, that's a hard sell lol.
Feeling terrible means your body is stressed. This is basic stuff. We shouldn't walk around wanting to feel terrible and saying "Wow! This is great that I feel terrible! It must be my body is detoxing! yay! I want to keep feeling terrible!" I just will never get on board with that. You can mention the idea of a hangover but that is a very acute situation lasting for a couple hours. It doesn't translate well to general diet.
It goes to detox or intox. Liver King and Paul Saladino feel great too as they gob in huge doses of vA, copper and now honey and vA rich fruit. Shawn baker feels great and performs phenomenally while eating dozens of eggs. These folk will continue to feel great and show great serum markers as their livers absorb all they are taking it. At some point soon, their livers will overflow. Then serum levels and symptoms will go berzerk. Personal experience speaking from repeated episodes going back 5 decades that match experience outlined by Grant and Garrett and now thousands of others on their networks.
As long as the liver has room it will aggressively as possible make serum levels ideal and suck up and store any dangerous items that are not quickly and easily passed out the colon. Glad you feel low symptoms and get great serum levels. Liver biopsy is the test that will show what is going on. Symptoms mean one thing only: that the liver is detoxing and the rest of the body (colon, kidneys, skin) are not getting vA and copper and others out fast enough. That detox will happen when liver reaches capacity for strorage or when intoxxing is reduced to a level that liver detox kicks in.
The only function I have seen here or elsewhere of choline and eggs is that it helps liver to store vA faster. If that is your or anyone's here goal, then regardless of past triggering events, emotions and unreconciled stressors, I ask one question: why are you on a blog dedicated to proving that vA and copper are not nutrients and life improves in proportion to reducing their intake and increasing their expulsion from our bodies?
Quote from Andrew B on June 13, 2023, 5:27 am@tommy I stated the problem to Joe before and basically Joe said after I mentioned Jenny had had 3 seizures and I quote "Be as triggered as you are". Jenny has asked him to stop and he hasnt. Jenny has removed herself from this forum because of these people. I was asking on her behalf because the tags appear with the whole story in an email. I just asked him to stop tagging her. I asked politely the first time and so did Jenny. The third time I think I'm entitled to let Grant know. @ggenereux2014
Why dont you mind your own business ? You dont know the full story.
why don't you mind your own business? the way you are here as well Andrew? concern for all of us is appreciated. consideration that I and anyone else on these threads are not the cause of your problems might be more pertinent.
My tagging of Jenny had one intent - to reply to points she raised. if this is such an issue perhaps we each need to preface every one of our posts with disclaimers outlining who we are allowed to reference and who we are not. Meanwhile please note that you will find zero ad hominem attacks by me about anyone else while it is quite easy to find them about Garrett and even sometimes backhandedly about Grant.
Ad hominems in themselves are insane. Let alone on a site that Grant and Garrett play such a pivotal role. If this really is such an issue and Garrett is such a demon, perhaps a separate blog on another host is in order. Otherwise please learn to play nicely enough to not falsely accuse folk of bad intent.
What you are asking me to do is to not tag Jenny about anything having to do with Garrett. Or not to tag Jenny at all. Is that correct? Either of those ideas is completely anathema to the whole idea of this blog. Garrett with or without your knowledge is an integral part of this blog because of his involvement in this topic. The whole point of the blog is to discuss painful issues freely.
Your request is akin to someone asking Garrett not to discuss colon function because it is too gross. Well yah. It is too gross. So is helping people who's colons do not function well. From decades in healthcare starting with my first job in a nursing home, I can speculate with a bit of certainty that GETTING OVER one's self and reconciling one's trigger points is not only the first priority in all events, it is necessary to get past the trigger points and get to the cause.
And are we not all trying to get to the cause?
Quote from Tommy on June 8, 2023, 5:44 pmCould it have been a mild form of insulin resistance in your body reacting to going from a very low carb diet to a high carb diet?
Interesting point raised by Mercola and others recently: some folk on keto / carnivore have been coming up diabetic. Had massive nose bleeds and other diabetic symptoms as a carbaholic. These faded for first year of paleo / keto. Then came storming back whenever I ate as much as I wanted to. So no, eating like Shawn Baker was never an option for me. Even while cushioning the glycemic index with hard training. Wonder what that means for the rest of us. FWIW, I am an under - as in skinny old guy who regardless of quantity, quality and types of food eaten has always been skinny. My worst cachexic stages in life were after years of lacto/ovo carbaholic vegetarian.
Quote from Jessica2 on June 10, 2023, 7:46 am@tommy perhaps you're trying to lead me here or perhaps not
, but many on this forum would say that VA would be a root cause of NAFLD. But to me it's not clear whether it's the cause or a symptom, this storage of VA and altered VA metabolism. There are a lot of studies linking fructose and sugars to NAFLD as well, so does insulin resistance cause NAFLD and altered VA metabolism or does VA cause NAFLD and altered insulin metabolism?
researchers on rodent studies induce cancer in their animals with either high fructose or high fat diets.
similarly researchers induce celiac disease in their animals with vA diets that seem to ruin their intestinal villi.
Quote from Audrey on June 13, 2023, 1:46 pm
So he advised to use them as a brake as needed and to know what we are doing by taking them in. Long term, there is an increased price to pay in detox.
When I started on one egg a day more than 6 months ago there was no brake put on. Quite the opposite in fact, the flood gates opened up! I cut back on fibre and other fats, beef and kept eating 1 egg a day, and eventually things balanced out, anxiety improved. I experience easy bowel movements 1-3 times a day. I am also finally tolerating fat much better, I can even eat some nuts and sunflower seeds without distress. This is TMI, but adding eggs back in made me poop more yellow bile in 4 months than being on this diet for almost 4 years (at the time). The eggs did not slow anything down for me! Tbh, I have no attachment to eggs, I am mostly interested in the choline... but eggs have other nutrients that I desperately need right now bc I still struggle daily to eat enough meat. Maybe a choline supplement is something I'd consider but I'm not quite there yet.
color of the poop as an indicator of vA dump becomes a question here. choline primarily helps removal of retinoids from serum and helps liver to store it more quickly. your experience as outlined does not fit that scenario. we need better ways to measure vA and copper content in our tissue, serum and excreta. and no I am not going to get a liver biopsy.
I remember similar arguments decades ago when glycemic index came into vogue. Which btw was a completely random claim backed up with zero science. What put me and most folk over the edge was when Tim Ferris put a needle in his gut and wore a blood sugar monitor continuously while tracking every possible factor. Then the device mfrs rocked the market with better and better machines and many started doing it. That alone wrecked the calories in calories out theorists. It also wrecked the glycemic index junk science.
Wonder what it would take to make a device that measures vA and copper levels.
Quote from Andrew B on June 15, 2023, 11:05 am@audrey The eggs dont cause cholestasis unless you dont tolerate them. All the signs are you have improved bile flow and got stronger detox. Cholestasis is an impairment of bile flow so something slowing it down still. Something additional now needed from the list. I suggest small increase in cruciferous vegetables if tolerated.
what is your basis for claiming eggs do not cause cholestasis?