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Calcium
I drink a cup or two of raw, skim goat milk a day
@lil-chick I would love to eat some dairy and get calcium this way. My goal ultimately is to be healthy to the point where I can eat everything. Like gluten, dairy, legumes etc.. People who can do it without any issues don't realize how lucky they are..Anyway I think calcium deficiency is a big part of my problems and 8 years of bodybuilding diet with almost no calcium and a lot of phosphorus from grains and meat didn't help for sure.. It is crazy that I was worry about microminerals like boron, mangan, molybden etc.. but have probably huge deficiency in the most important mineral that basically keep our body solid.. Without calcium we would be like jellyfish or something and you can see it in old people with vit D and calcium deficiency how their back is more and more bended. They look like they search for something on the ground all the time.. I also have very hard time maintain good posture and straight spine even when I exercise a lot my whole body. Back, core muscles etc.. + my transparent and sensitive teeth, soft nails etc.. I think it is clear that I need to take calcium..
@jiri, I think that you are right, that over time VA overload causes osteoperosis and the stooped posture that you mention. I think it probably is important for us to work on that posture, and mirrors might be necessary for us to see that we are stooped. My son keeps telling hubs and I to pull those two wings together in the back. Feels awful and wrong.
My husband can't do dairy either. I intend to keep giving tiny amounts to my husband so that we will know when his gut is ready for a little goat milk! Whenever I do it, he says I'm trying to kill him. It seems to me he can take a little for a day or two, then needs a break.
People here have mentioned egg shell powder, perhaps I should be giving him some. It is easy to make and free. I have given it to my cats and they don't mind it. Cats seem pretty intuitive about these things.
@lil-chick my stomach acid is not strong enough to dissolve egg shells even when they are powdered in coffee grinder.. I just see everything in poop.. I started with calcium citrate tablets and so far it gives me no problems.
Calcium is something I still don't have a lot of clarity about.
It is said that stature is affected by differences in dairy intake growing up. This is likely true and there are a lot of countries where people don't consume dairy and they are shorter. But not all. Tonga and Samoa are outliers. Polynesians have always been big and tall yet they didn't use dairy. Did they consume fish bones? Maybe but I'll bet you'll find plenty of tall men there that have never consumed much dairy and don't consume fish or chicken bones.
Perhaps Vitamin D status is the important aspect with regard to calcium.
In a diet without dairy and animal bones calcium intake is still higher than magnesium. Magnesium is needed in significant amounts too and it is thought that we don't conserve magnesium as well as we do calcium.
I think limited amounts of dairy may be good for growing children but I am unsure if adults benefit from the calcium in dairy.
My current position is to take a middle ground, to have small amounts of dairy in the diet.
I often eat the collagen around chicken bones, you can easily get calcium at the same time when doing this as well. Maybe paleo man with his large stature got calcium while eating bone marrow. Plains indians had a large stature with no dairy while living mostly on buffalo. While I can easily get calcium from chicken bones wild animals have much less chewable bones than chicken. When I have shot quail and rabbit and made a stew with them something you notice is the quality of their bones. They are very strong and smooth, quite different from chicken bones which are brittle and chewable.
@tim-2 once is someone vit D deficient for some time you can't absorb calcium anymore. So person like this will need much more to restore his calcium level in the body. If someone have all micronutrients balanced their whole life and also think that they don't need 1000mg or more every day.. But it is clear when you look at work of Weston Price. People that lived mostly on grains= vit K2, calcium deficiency had bad teeth, narrow jaws etc. and people living in Switzerland etc.. where they were eating high quality raw dairy all the time etc.. had excellent teeth, wide jaws with a lot of space for healthy teeth etc.. So I agree also with Ray Peat that if you have diet high in phosphorus and low in bioavailable calcium. Your teeth, bones and other functions that need calcium can't be optimal.. But his recommended 5000mg a day is overkill for sure.. Just because some african tribe is eating that amount doesn't mean everyone should as well.. I think most "normal" people who don't have any health issues and look healthy eat everything without restrictions. Had always good vit D level. Their body was never toxic in vit A and their calcium intake was around 700-1000mg a day.. Once people start doing weird diets, start taking multivitamins etc.. The problems will show up..
I think Jifi has a good point that we end up re-visiting some of the basics of nutrition in this process. Good old calcium. 🙂
I think I have genes of dairy drinkers. I suppose some people don't.
Soup bones are a ubiquitous thing. The 18th century vlogger "townsend" says the basic meal of the people was
1. pottage 2. bread 3. ale. (pottage being soup).
Small boned fish/reptiles and amphibians were probably always easy to catch everywhere by people of all ages (even old ladies, perhaps leading to the witch brewing up frogs?)
We modern people are so separated from dirt!
I bet that people that lived closer to the earth got some of their minerals just from their closeness to the earth. Drinking surface water and food with trace amounts of dirt and ash, being dirty, using unglazed clay vessels. (think of how people visit spas for mineral baths)
People also ate from animals who were closer to the earth. Kind of weird to think of farm animals not being in touch with dirt, but that happens now. Chickens without dirt. DUH!
I've written the below instead of responding to what you wrote because I know what the discussion will turn into if I actually breakdown what you said.
You cant deal with being shown why you are wrong which is holding you back. Nobody enjoys being shown they are wrong but if someone explains clearly and logically why I am wrong then I consider it the best gift as a knowledge seeker. Ive spent way too many hours researching health and nutrition. I started when I was 19, I'm now in my late thirties. For most of those years I have dedicated countless hours to solving health problems of others and myself. When I look back at how long it took me to start to really understand the subtleties and fundamentals of nutrition it makes me realize why there are so few good experts in many fields. In the past Ive made bad mistakes and given wrong health advice to people. Im not good at all sorts of things, for example Im hopeless at practical stuff like fixing cars and house maintenance LOL But discussing nutritional science is like breathing or walking to me. When I say Im not clear on calcium it's because few are. Some world renowned expert in nutrition could visit this forum, I promise you I could find logical fallacies in their arguments. Health is one of those subjects where there are a lot of knowns but there are more unknowns and it is a subject full of misinformation so people that are not independent abstract thinkers and don't have a decent iq can't do that well. You are intelligent and you've got a fair bit right in previous posts but with what you wrote above I can find reasons as to why most of what you wrote is at least partially incorrect.
With regard to Weston Price I'll just say one thing. He claims that Inuit had some of the best jaw structure such as width and development of the maxilla of the peoples he studied. Their diet was sky high in retinol, low in calcium and they got almost no Vit D from the sun...
Stocks and broths are not high in calcium unless one puts vinegar in at the start like Fallon recommends. I don't recommend that though since it affects the flavour and in a metal pot it will release a lot of metal into the stock. I emailed her about the metal issue but she just wanted to ignore it, I should have seen that as a red flag that there might be other issues she might want to ignore... like fermented clo and VA...
Soups, stews and pottage, so good. Pottage was a bit different from soup, it was more of a meal in itself. I'm also genetically adapted to ale, at least that's what I tell myself...
Quote from tim on June 19, 2020, 7:09 pmYou cant deal with being shown why you are wrong which is holding you back. Nobody enjoys being shown they are wrong but if someone explains clearly and logically why I am wrong then I consider it the best gift as a knowledge seeker. Ive spent way too many hours researching health and nutrition. I started when I was 19, I'm now in my late thirties. For most of those years I have dedicated countless hours to solving health problems of others and myself. When I look back at how long it took me to start to really understand the subtleties and fundamentals of nutrition it makes me realize why there are so few good experts in many fields. In the past Ive made bad mistakes and given wrong health advice to people. Im not good at all sorts of things, for example Im hopeless at practical stuff like fixing cars and house maintenance LOL But discussing nutritional science is like breathing or walking to me. When I say Im not clear on calcium it's because few are. Some world renowned expert in nutrition could visit this forum, I promise you I could find logical fallacies in their arguments. Health is one of those subjects where there are a lot of knowns but there are more unknowns and it is a subject full of misinformation so people that are not independent abstract thinkers and don't have a decent iq can't do that well. You are intelligent and you've got a fair bit right in previous posts but with what you wrote above I can find reasons as to why most of what you wrote is at least partially incorrect. Im writing this instead of responding to what you wrote because I know what the discussion will turn into if I actually breakdown what you said.
With regard to Weston Price I'll just say one thing. He claims that Inuit had some of the best jaw structure such as width and development of the maxilla of the peoples he studied. Their diet was sky high in retinol, low in calcium and they got almost no Vit D from the sun...
This is so true. Sometimes it makes me cringe when I see someone making the same mistakes that I did years ago, but if you try to help you just get angry response. So I have decided to let people see their mistakes and live them through, that seems to be the only way, trough suffering you will find the right way. I was Jiri many many years ago, live and learn, live and learn.