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Calcium
@max-3 I tried powdered egg shells. It's basically calcium carbonate so very alkaline hard to absorb.. Sardines have some calcium, but how many cans I would have to eat to get at least 600 mg of calcium? I don't think it's a good idea to eat sardines daily.. Hopefully some day I can just eat some yogurt without any issues...
According to cronometer you have to eat 2 cans of sardines with bones and skin for around 680mg of calcium.
I have a feeling that you somehow absorb the minerals from sardines very well. Probably because you also get many other minerals from them that work in synergy with the calcium. On top of that sardines have Vitamin D, E and K2 help to transport minerals into your teeth. I also tried egg shells and I didnt feel that my teeth would get stronger. With the sardines however I can definetely feel it. I have one sensitive teeth that has been sensitive for at least 2 years now. But after eating 2 cans of sardines a day for a week it no longer hurts.
Since my experience has led me not to underestimate importance of dietary calcium, I officially invite @ggenereux2014 to explore this key factor. Since vitamin A is highly correlated to calcium metabolism and since following a diet low/zero in vitamin A (hence dairy products banned) and rich in meat and grains-beans (such as rice or kidney beans) certainly leads to calcium deficiency (no B vitamins, no trace elements like zinc because red meat has enough of them).
My long-term setback on low VA diet could be same reason for short/mid-term setbacks.
If you switch from an already low calcium diet such vegan or paleo diet to a low vitamin A diet, the benefits are only temporary, as increased retinol excretion impairs calcium metabolism, further dietary deficiency of calcium leads to a wall and above all many symptoms of calcium deficiency are superimposable to vitamin A issues, such as dry and flaky skin, bad eyesight (subcapsular cataracts-->night-blindness), brain fog, low energy, enamel hypoplasia... --> check https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/books/NBK279022/#_hparath-hypocalc-diag_toc-clinical-presentation-of-hypocalcemia_
Hypocalcaemia leads to calcium paradox, low dietary calcium leads to calcium efflux, increased PTH hormone, as well as in old age bones lose calcium but soft tissue calcify, for this same reason it is important to avoid vitamin D3 supplement. Only sun exposure is healthy!
It is important to know that only 1% of Calcium in the bone can immediately equilibrate with extracellular Calcium, so even if you are in this range you may have no hypocalcemia symptoms but damage your bones, if you need more than 1% to maintain blood levels, you cannot get it from your bones and you will have hypocalcemia issue and symptoms.
To keep positive balance we need about 1g/day (maybe a little less if you don't take vitamin A) of calcium from food and it is so important for you! "The symptoms of calcium deficiency blend so well into our everyday lives that they often go unnoticed or at least don’t set off any alarms for greater attention"
Thank you for this reminder, I will increase calcium in my diet, I have issues with dry skin and it just does not go away.... I have also had ice cream cravings at work and kinda feel good after eating it, maybe it is the calcium my body wants....
Quote from Tropico on June 7, 2023, 3:37 amSince my experience has led me not to underestimate importance of dietary calcium, I officially invite @ggenereux2014 to explore this key factor. Since
vitaminA is highly correlated to calcium metabolism and since following a diet low/zero in vitamin A (hence dairy products banned) and rich in meat and grains-beans (such as rice or kidney beans) certainly leads to calcium deficiency (no B vitamins, no trace elements like zinc because red meat has enough of them).My long-term setback on low VA diet could be same reason for short/mid-term setbacks.
If you switch from an already low calcium diet such vegan or paleo diet to a low
vitaminA diet, the benefits are only temporary, as increased retinol excretion impairs calcium metabolism, further dietary deficiency of calcium leads to a wall and above all many symptoms of calcium deficiency are superimposable tovitaminA issues, such as dry and flaky skin, bad eyesight (subcapsular cataracts-->night-blindness), brain fog, low energy, enamel hypoplasia... --> check https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/books/NBK279022/#_hparath-hypocalc-diag_toc-clinical-presentation-of-hypocalcemia_Hypocalcaemia leads to calcium paradox, low dietary calcium leads to calcium efflux, increased PTH hormone, as well as in old age bones lose calcium but soft tissue calcify, for this same reason it is important to avoid vitamin D3 supplement. Only sun exposure is healthy!
It is important to know that only 1% of Calcium in the bone can immediately equilibrate with extracellular Calcium, so even if you are in this range you may have no hypocalcemia symptoms but damage your bones, if you need more than 1% to maintain blood levels, you cannot get it from your bones and you will have hypocalcemia issue and symptoms.
To keep positive balance we need about 1g/day (maybe a little less if you don't take
vitamin A) of calcium from food and it is so important for you! "The symptoms of calcium deficiency blend so well into our everyday lives that they often go unnoticed or at least don’t set off any alarms for greater attention"
@tropico good to see you are doing good (old user Arena here). How would you recommend taking calcium for people trying to avoid oxalates and dairy at all cost?
calcium supplements, such as eggshell, coral calcium... with lemon juice on an empty stomach (or with a meal but it gives me bloating), in several daily doses.
Initially hard to digest but after a few days the stomach seems to adjust.
Quote from Tropico on June 7, 2023, 3:37 amSince my experience has led me not to underestimate importance of dietary calcium, I officially invite @ggenereux2014 to explore this key factor. Since
vitaminA is highly correlated to calcium metabolism and since following a diet low/zero in vitamin A (hence dairy products banned) and rich in meat and grains-beans (such as rice or kidney beans) certainly leads to calcium deficiency (no B vitamins, no trace elements like zinc because red meat has enough of them).My long-term setback on low VA diet could be same reason for short/mid-term setbacks.
If you switch from an already low calcium diet such vegan or paleo diet to a low
vitaminA diet, the benefits are only temporary, as increased retinol excretion impairs calcium metabolism, further dietary deficiency of calcium leads to a wall and above all many symptoms of calcium deficiency are superimposable tovitaminA issues, such as dry and flaky skin, bad eyesight (subcapsular cataracts-->night-blindness), brain fog, low energy, enamel hypoplasia... --> check https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/books/NBK279022/#_hparath-hypocalc-diag_toc-clinical-presentation-of-hypocalcemia_Hypocalcaemia leads to calcium paradox, low dietary calcium leads to calcium efflux, increased PTH hormone, as well as in old age bones lose calcium but soft tissue calcify, for this same reason it is important to avoid vitamin D3 supplement. Only sun exposure is healthy!
It is important to know that only 1% of Calcium in the bone can immediately equilibrate with extracellular Calcium, so even if you are in this range you may have no hypocalcemia symptoms but damage your bones, if you need more than 1% to maintain blood levels, you cannot get it from your bones and you will have hypocalcemia issue and symptoms.
To keep positive balance we need about 1g/day (maybe a little less if you don't take
vitamin A) of calcium from food and it is so important for you! "The symptoms of calcium deficiency blend so well into our everyday lives that they often go unnoticed or at least don’t set off any alarms for greater attention"
I'm also worried about the calcium and think it's too low (probably at least). But then again why -as my body is still detoxing - did my need for calcium seriously decrease in a couple of months after starting, and while my serum retinol was still very high. I only get aout 2-300 mg a day and I used to havebetween 2-3000. Yet my serum calcium has stayed normal and my PTH have not increased. Also my leg-cramps have disappeared, my nails hair and teeth have gotten stronger. So even if Im still not sure about the optimaility of my so low intake it's hard to note any negative effects from it. It would be interesting to know how a low-vitamin A diet actually affects this and what the recomended intake needs be. I think its very unlikely it needs to be as high as 1000mg though even if that's recomended. Very few people historically have had that high of an intake. (It's at least double of what you find in all none dairy consuming traditional cultures also, especially tribal societies.)
For what it’s worth, the new dental decay I experienced last year has started to heal after I started taking calcium citrate... Also, eating more cabbage—for both vitamin K and calcium—seems to be helping, in my case. My calcium intake has been fairly low throughout my life.
Yes, my dental health was deteriorating, I had to have my wisdom tooth removed as it was very decayed, my first tooth removed, tooth sensitivity was deteriorating… for me, it is clear what was happening, the only massive missing nutrient in low vit.A diet is calcium. I am sensitive to calcium deficiency, many years ago when I followed a raw vegan diet I immediately ruined my tooth enamel. Anyway, now after 1 month of calcium supplementation my teeth are getting better enamel.
It is misleading to look only diet of past peoples, there are too many things we don't know. We can look at Inuit peoples with large doses of vitamin A and low calcium, or Mexican high calcium from lime-treated corn https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022316622104670
Teeth or bones are a good indicator of calcium needs, better not to underestimate.
Disease latency for osteoporosis is long because, even with a zero calcium intake, bone cannot be torn down fast enough to produce clinically appreciable depletions in less than several years. Apart from intrinsic bone-wasting disease or severe paralysis of one sort or another, excretion of calcium over net absorbed intake in an amount >100 mg/d would be rare. Such a rate of loss would deplete an adult skeleton by ≈3%/y. In testing isolated specimens in a biomaterials laboratory, even a 3% depletion would have a measurable effect on bone strength, but clinically the depletion would not be apparent until it had gone on for ≥10 y. An even slower rate of loss, more typical of developing osteoporosis, may require ≈30 y to produce depletion severe enough to result in manifest fragility.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916522034141
Obviously, dietary calcium works synergically with magnesium, vitamin K,D, etc and most likely low vitamin A requires less dietary calcium. I think 700-1000mg is a safe target, but I think that when liver excretes a lot of vitamin A it needs to be buffered or bound and can increase the calcium requirement. We all know that vitamin A causes severe osteoporosis and therefore destroys calcium from bones, this can be a real reason for setbacks.
It's so straightforward and simple but none of the big guys here thought of it, focusing on the little things like zinc (or other MICRO nutrients) which comes in abundance with red meat, calcium is a MACRO nutrient! I know that traditional doctors and nutritionists also speak of the importance of dietary calcium and we don't trust, but this time they are probably right.
@tropico It sounds like for you the calcium supplementation is doing some good. I dont know why my body is acting the way it does but I just cannot take calcium supps since going low A. It makes me feel like shit and get stiff and sleepless. So for me it's just a matter of lets hope it doesnt harm me going this low, not something I recommend. But Im sort of encourage by teeth and nails improving. About the traditional diets I agree the mexican diet fits the high Ca bill but I guess I was thinking about non-agriculture societies- so say anything before 10.000BC and mostly until much more recently. Of course my ideas here is based on a mixture of paleonanthropolgical skeletal anazlysiz and projections based on more modern tribes (including the inutis though they are more special in their high fat/omega 3 intake, than their low carb if you compare to other northern eurasian hunting populations), but I find it hard based on those to postulate a significantly higher Ca intake in prehistory, and at least we know their bone densities where generally better than ours. Sort of just clarifying why I do eat so low Ca. and also specifing that I was thinking in a longer timespan and non-agricultural. I actually think of pre-european mexico as a quite advanced civilization.