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Carnivore diet (all animal foods)
Quote from lil chick on June 9, 2019, 1:02 pmI wonder how far our tastes can be trusted. I've NEVER liked beef liver.
I once was told that a friend's cat SOMETIMES ate the liver of mice and other times... didn't
I think our sense of taste tells us a lot more about what we should and shouldn’t eat than we realize. I think we’ve learned not to rely, trust or use our sense of taste because we’ve been unnaturally overstimulating it.
Hi John,
You might find this interesting. There are accounts from the Canadian Arctic where the ravens will pick the carcass of dead polar bears clean down to the bare bones. And to where there is not a speck of meat or flesh remaining; except the liver is left completely untouched by these smart birds.
Wow that is interesting. They know something. I’ve personally never liked liver. Never liked the texture nor the taste. There’s only a hand full of times where I made an effort to eat it cause I thought it might be good to have some variety.
My problem was I ate a lot of fruits my whole life and a lot of it unripened growing up.
Quote from Orion on June 7, 2019, 12:20 pm
Sounds like another +1 for zero/low VA, but long term zero carb is problematic.
Dr. Smith has a good take on this:
"Restricting carbs or Calories is stress on the body. Low-carb diets, in order to create glucose for the body to run on, basically have to use stress hormones (cortisol and adrenaline, among others) to make sugars out of fats and proteins. Stressors, in general (dietary included), depletes magnesium. High fats in the diet may deplete magnesium further.
As magnesium stores get more and more depleted, the calcium-to-magnesium ratio on hair mineral analysis gets worse and worse, which means that the body's blood-sugar-control-ability gets worse as well. This is the root of why the literature shows long-term low-carbing results in worsening carbohydrate sensitivity, tolerance, and diabetes."
This is partially incorrect.
It is not true that higher catecholamines (stress hormones) are required to make sugar out of fats and proteins. When doing high-fat ketogenic diet, your insulin drops low. When it does so low enough, it stops inhibiting HSL (hormon sensitive lipase) in the adipose tissue, which then much easier releases triglycerides (TG) into the blood stream. These TG are built of three fatty acids (FFA) and a glycerol molecule. When supply of FFA reaching the liver is high enough, almost all blood glucose is made of glycerol and only a small fraction out of protein. This is why people do prolonged fasts (36H+) and they spark with energy. Apart from that: everyone ever reaching really deep ketosis (like 4.0+ mmol/L) will confirm that this is a very blissful state, not a stressful one. Myself included.
What can be true from the above quote is that unadapted people meeting ketosis for the first time may indeed face such symptoms, because their body has not yet transferred to fully fat burning mode, resulting in heightened levels of catecholamines "forcing" TG from the adipose tissue instead of letting them go freely solely because of low insulin. This most often happens with people being rather low-carb than fully ketogenic and others overconsuming protein above their needs. Both of these elevate insulin, which inhibits lipolysis, resulting in lower supply of FFA into the bloodstream -> stress -> catecholamines. IMHO, serious ketogenic diet starts with at least 2:1 fat-to-protein ratio, when majority of people claiming to be ketogenic don't ever reach that level.
As far as magnesium is concerned:
Update: Thank you everyone! I understand the bile reabsorption theory a little better now. @pawel @lil-chick @frank-2 @puddleduck @ggenereux2014 @andrew-b
I forgot to mention that I do eat an avocado every day. I am getting plenty of fiber via the avocado and peeled apples. I also have dark chocolate for dessert. I've noticed Garrett Smith is very anti-fat, anti-avocado/egg/cheese. I'm trying to gain a little weight, so this is getting pretty difficult... Again, any and all input is very much appreciated!
Hi! I am new to low vitA. I thrive on a high-fat (80% fat) animal-based diet. It has helped me recover from chronic migraines and PCOS. I am managing hypothyroidism. I was also on birth control pills for 15+ years. I want to support my liver function. I have been delving into the works of @ggenereux2014 and Garrett Smith. Is anyone in the community thriving on a high FAT low vit A diet? For context, I have lowered my fat intake slightly and increased my carbohydrate intake via peeled apples. I don't fully understand Garrett's explanation of reabsorption of bile due to high fat diets.
Hi Celine.
Quote from Celine on December 16, 2023, 10:31 amIs anyone in the community thriving on a high FAT low vit A diet?
I'm raising my hand.
Quote from Celine on December 16, 2023, 10:31 amI don't fully understand Garrett's explanation of reabsorption of bile due to high fat diets.
His narrative is that, when we eat a meal and consequently bile is released from the gallbladder to the small intestine, we want to get rid of it, because this bile load allegedly contains toxins from the liver (like vA, heavy metals etc.). Therefore, if we add anything in the meal to which this bile can bind to (like fiber or charchoal), we will excrete these toxins with feces instead of them being reabsorbed back into the liver.
That's the idea. I don't know if this is true, but for sure @ggenereux2014 insight on this would be much appreciated.
Hi @celine! Welcome here. 🙂
As Pawel said, bile is recycled, basically:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterohepatic_circulation
So the idea is to remove it from the body via the stool using soluble fiber (or bile acid sequesterants):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bile_acid_sequestrant
Karen Hurd’s young daughter was nearly poisoned to death by a toxic nerve agent, but recovered after Karen fed her a steady dose of psyllium (soluble fiber) throughout the day:
https://www.karenhurd.com/the-green-dragon.html
When on the carnivore diet, toxins are still being removed via the urine, sweat, and breath, but I would think detox via the stool would be reduced due to bile recycling. I’d be interested to hear a contradictory explanation, though!
One problem that can occur on a high-fat diet is BAM (bile acid malabsorption), which usually leads to loose stool as the bile is expelled from the gut. This isn’t good for the gut microbiome, but perhaps it is the body’s way of refusing to reabsorb toxic bile?
All the best to you, Celine!
Wild cats are carnivores who eat lots of fat and liver but don't eat fiber and don't die from eating fat and liver. Is their guts that different from ours?
I really think that my two elderly cats had VA overload and they definitely died of kidney failure. Of course, for their whole lives I was a wapfer and giving them plenty of VA.
I think they were actually wanting fiber. When they were younger I let them "free range" but as they aged I didn't. Perhaps that was their downfall. I suppose there are some kinds of fiber in a cat's diet--who is allowed to be free-- such as bone, feathers, fur, maybe stomach contents of little rodents? Cats also eat grass.
On the day one of them died, he begged to go out and I gave him his last wish and he looked up at the sky and fell over.
Quote from Frank on December 16, 2023, 1:14 pmWild cats are carnivores who eat lots of fat and liver but don't eat fiber and don't die from eating fat and liver. Is their guts that different from ours?
Wild carnivore animals have all kinds of parasites, are constantly injured(bleeding) from fighting etc.. I think that is the biggest problem when you don't see the full picture and you just see the diet part.. When you live in a wild you never end up vit D deficient + you are constantly exposed to things that are known to deplete vit A and also you are not exposed things that disrupt vit A metabolism like glyphosate etc.. But to answer your question yeah their digestive system is completely different, their metabolism is different. You can't compare wild cat to modern human lol.. You can compare humans to pigs or other omnivores.. I really can't believe that people are discussing what type of animal human is..