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Carnivore diet (all animal foods)
Quote from Jessica2 on December 17, 2023, 6:10 amAlso, the idea that carnivores don't detox is kind of silly to me. This presupposes they do not poop or pee at all. The number one driver for detox, in my humble opinion, is protein and amino acids, (and water!) not fiber. Though I dont know and can't say for certain how effective or ineffective fiber is for detoxing purposes. To me, that issue is up in the air. I suspect it is far far less important if it does help detox than amino acids and fluids, which are what drive the detoxification systems of the body.
I've been on carnivore since September (with a few cheats a few times) and I've done both of these things every day. If I'm not detoxing, I'd be constipated and have clear urine. I don't have either of those issues on carnivore. I feel fine.
I thought this way as well, but Karen Hurd's story was miraculous to me. Her daughter was poisoned by a pesticide, she almost died like twice, then was suffering very badly until she added fiber to her diet. People have also recovered from mold toxicity by using cholestyramine which is a bile sequestering agent. It seems the recycling does in fact recycle some level of toxins that can really harm us. Not that we don't have any capability of detoxing without fiber otherwise we'd be dead, but it's putting too much stress on the kidneys to take care of it. I was low fiber for yrs and my cholesterol numbers are pretty bad now. I think the bile can get too thick and sticky when you restrict things like vegetables and beans in your diet.
I was following a different diet guru who healed himself, he couldn't talk for yrs, his voice was all jacked up. He found out he wasn't digesting well, he uses a bile flowing supplement with his clients that has beet greens and betaine hcl with digestive enzymes.
Quote from Jessica2 on December 17, 2023, 5:43 amWhat I find troubling and hard to understand about the "toxic bile theory" is that bile acids are indeed recycled, this is true.
However....toxins to be removed from the body are usually conjugated with other substances like sulfur and the glucuronidation byproducts, etc and are in bile (which is composed of a number of substances besides bile acids) to be removed. If the body just reabsorbed 95% of toxins/bile it would just be a sewer system on loop and too toxic for life.
Problems occur when in the guts, "bad" microbiota cleve conjugated toxins to be removed and the toxin is reabsorbed via a compromised gut lining and the enterohepatic loop. But to say it is because the bile acids themselves are "toxic" I dont think is fully correct. Bile recycling is a natural process.
Well, I think the 5% of bile that do leave the body might have been sufficient for cleaning up well enough without fiber (maybe, because humans tend to live longer and longer now, which means more poisons clogging the liver too), would we not live in such toxic environments.. and as we get more and more toxic we need more bile out. Our modern lives are just not comparable to how humans evolved.
It is also not the bile acids themselves that are toxic as far as I understand it - but the byproducts that are in the bile, the excess hormones and other poisons that the body wants to get rid of, like mold, chemicals etc.
I am astounded at what people can heal when they keep going with the bean protocol. Its just not a sexy process and one has to be very patient as it can take months and years to see results. Carnivore can be a very quick healer, I know because I did it for a decade. Some days I am tempted to go back to it, because its so simple and easy, and one loses weight fast too, but then I remind myself to be patient. I wonder if carnivore heals so fast because it leaves out all food to whom one could react, like gluten, sugar, dairy.. I want true healing now, deep to the roots, no quick fixes. I am also astounded at how after eating a little less, especially not eating late anymore, and doing yoga/stretching every day 30 minutes, my cellulite now is about to disappear. I would say in one or two months my cellulite has reduced by 1/3.
And this well being feeling is really something. I can literally feel how my hormones are balancing out and my body have so much less stress hormones now. My hair gets thicker, noticeably so. Many great signs of healing on a deep level. I promised myself I am doing this bean thing at least 2 years before giving up and now I am 11 months in and I have great things happening already, when someone have to wait 2 year even, for result, but then boom... the healing is amazing.
I just need to try this out for min. 2 years. It is fascinating to me.
Quote from Jiří on December 17, 2023, 4:56 amQuote from Frank on December 16, 2023, 1:14 pmWild cats are carnivores who eat lots of fat and liver but don't eat fiber and don't die from eating fat and liver. Is their guts that different from ours?
Wild carnivore animals have all kinds of parasites, are constantly injured(bleeding) from fighting etc.. I think that is the biggest problem when you don't see the full picture and you just see the diet part.. When you live in a wild you never end up vit D deficient + you are constantly exposed to things that are known to deplete vit A and also you are not exposed things that disrupt vit A metabolism like glyphosate etc.. But to answer your question yeah their digestive system is completely different, their metabolism is different. You can't compare wild cat to modern human lol.. You can compare humans to pigs or other omnivores.. I really can't believe that people are discussing what type of animal human is..
"Comparative anatomy refers to the study of the similarities and differences in the anatomy of two species. Generally, it involves comparing the body structures of two species as seen in evolutionary biology and phylogeny."
There is whole field of study for comparing humans to animals
Human is half way between pig and dog/cat but has more acid than all.
Best way to health is to understand what type of animal human is. Best way to sick is think you know what human is but are wrong.
Interesting that we are between other domestic animals.
We are domesticated, We aren't wild.
I bet our domestication has changed our innards.
Quote from Jessica2 on December 17, 2023, 7:02 pmThis might be controversial here but about Karen Hurds protocol, I'm very skeptical. Her story seems a one-off anecdote. I know she thinks soluble fiber is a basically a cure-all but I just don't know if it really is, I don't know if the evidence is there for that. Soluble fiber seems to give some people a lot of problems. Psyllium never did anything much for me except bulked up stool. I wish I had miraculous thick hair growth and vibrant health like Inger eating beans and psyllium but I don't. She paywalls her information too. If it works for anyone who does it that's wonderful, I just think if soluble fiber cured poisonings it would be utilized more, though I could be wrong I leave that possibility open. I just dont notice miraculous things with added fibers or beans to my diet and I've eaten them daily over long periods of time.
Interesting that you got no benefits from beans @jessica2. I do am aware some dont and some get way worse if they start eating beans. Some need to start with one bean. I wonder if it depends on ones issues, if they do help. In my particular case i know for sure I have poisoned myself. My liver. With several nicotine gums every day for like 8 years. And excessive amounts of oysters for several months simultaneously, and liver/organ consumption, wine.. stress... trauma.. etc. My liver was stuck.
Maybe if the liver is not poisoned and the issues are different, then the bean protocol will not help. Also the bean protocol is not just eating beans, its giving up all stimulants, like coffee, perfume, alcohol, teas, sugar... and also lots of rest. Also a balanced diet with good amounts of animal protein 3 times/day. It would be interesting to try the bean protocol without beans. To see if its the beans that heals the most or all the other stuff!
Haha that is what I thought the first time I read about the bean protocol. Must be all the other things one has to do/not do, that is healing, and not the beans! I still decided to be brave and try the whole thing though. Just because it was fascinating and crazy I had never eaten beans in my life except some pea or lentil soup as a kid.
Anyhow in my case the beans surely act soothing. They kind of take away the edge off inner pain/stress. They say it is because the fiber binds to stress hormones and take them out, instead of recirculating them. Could also be because beans have good amounts of lithium, molybdenum, other calming minerals in them.
I get constipated from psyllium too, my poop get like weirdly rubbery-like. From beans I dont get any issues, my bowels love beans.
Quote from Jessica2 on December 17, 2023, 6:35 pm@janelle525 oh for sure toxins are reuptaken, it just isn't clear to me that its the bile acid/salt that is the driving agent for that, rather gut microbiota.
The body works rather hard to maintain a bile acid pool and only 5% at most is eliminated at a time.
Interestingly, bile acids are a toxic agent in and of themselves. They require a phosphatidyl choline protectant layer in bile duct caniculi in the liver and gallbladder and also in the stomach and intestines to prevent damage. Its it when this layer isn't intact that reputake of toxins and bile damage and altered gut microbiota that cleave toxins take place. But the role of bile acids is as a detergent of sorts to break down fats in food and its very necessary in the body.
This is why livers have high choline levels. Its hepatoprotectant. You would have a lot of damage from bile acids without it.
Yes, I agree that altered bile synthesis and reptake can cause health issues, but it isnt really, in my opinion, from toxins attached to bile acids. For one thing, if you dont have enough bile, bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine, otherwise known as SIBO takes place. SIBO causes bacteria to cleave apart water soluble toxins that are outward bound to be reuptaken. In this particular instance its LACK of bile causing issues.
You have helped me remember a bunch of stuff I learned from that guy who focuses on digestion. Let's put this all together. SIBO is definitely the result of not enough good flowing bile, not that we don't have it though, as we would die without bile, but that it's thick and sticky and backed up. This seems to happen to many women after having children. Cholestasis of pregnancy is very well known. Estrogen thickens bile. Choline wasn't the answer for me though. I was eating pasture raised eggs from a health food coop during my 2nd pregnancy when I felt sick for most of the time. I wasn't digesting well at all. Felt like food sat in my stomach like a rock. I was far too alkaline. I needed more acid. Choline can push you a bit more alkaline. But if you lean more acidic (high breath rate) then choline can be that thing that really helps you here is the info about that:
He gives many signs of bile not flowing properly and how to get it going again:
He recommends a beet greens supplement that really works for people, but the only one on the market is super expensive! So I haven't tried it. He also recommends coffee enemas and I can tell you these work! He says really high estrogen levels can make it hard to improve bile flow. I think this is where the beans were supposed to work for people. Karen says they help reduce estrogen levels and many women have confirmed this works for them. But I think the SIBO can prevent this from working the way it's meant to. Which is me, I have yet to be able to figure out how to eat beans, nuts, whole grains, psyllium, or any prebiotic fiber other than fruit. I didn't want to have to take killing supps. I wonder if you have SIBO YES carnivore is probably going to feel good (unless you have no stomach acid!). But does it kill the bacteria? or solve the problem? Could you add back in the plants and not get bloating and and gas and awful symptoms? Seems that's not the case for most people who undertake the diet. They may a hit a wall eventually and symptoms come back.
So here is his plan for SIBO:
I may try the mastic gum and d-limonene. Just using betaine HCl didn't solve it though it has made life way better. He does mention the carnivore thing, he says that's an extreme way to deal with SIBO and most of his clients don't have to do that. Fiber and sugar does feed it, but eliminating all carbs is too extreme.
And then you have to figure out if you are stuck in catabolic or anabolic states. We tend towards catabolic during the day to produce energy and anabolic at night to rest and heal. But many times people can get stuck in one or the other and then you can't sleep, or you don't have any energy during the day. Carbs can push people far too anabolic, so that's another reason carnivore can feel good for a while. High fiber foods tend to be high carb foods.
Sure enough he has a video when carnivore is a mistake *hint* when you have low acid and poor bile flow
This guy just gets it. I have lowish blood pressure and too alkaline I'd for sure pee out more minerals on carnivore and need all kinds of supps just to survive. That being said if I consume too many carbs and not enough protein I want to sleep all day (and wake up every hour at night with low blood sugar and barely breathing) (magnesium works because it's catabolic and people tend towards too anabolic with carbs and need some magnesium to push them a little more catabolic at night but it can backfire and you get insomnia)
@jessica2 how looks your thyroid function? That is a big factor in liver function and bile production and also like I said estrogen dominance is major burden to the liver so bile production as well.. That is where iodine comes into play. Which is very important element to help the body deal with excess of estrogen..