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Copper and CERULOPLASMIN
Quote from Jiří on April 26, 2022, 11:06 pmIf somebody thinks that taking more and more copper will give him more things that are made from copper then clearly this person has bad understanding of copper metabolism..
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. The people on his Facebook group are reporting some rather dramatic health changes from the high-dose copper. So clearly there is some noticeable effect from high-dose copper in many people. Whether or not the high-dose regiment will end badly for these folks is another story entirely.
@jeremy yeah people feel good on fasting, keto diets, stimulants, drugs, steroids.. I would say not many people can handle crazy doses like 20-30mg of copper without any long term issues. If you take all essential elements to balance that copper and you have zero cholestasis so you can actually eliminate every excess of copper with bile to the toilet. You can be ok. But healthy people like that don't take 20-30mg of copper in pill form in a first place. That's the problem..
@jiri Hm, this is confusing to me, honestly.
What makes you believe that we need very little copper? And aren't the toxicity issues stemming from the fact that the copper is not used properly? So it might not be the copper per se that is problematic but the required cofactors that are needed to use available copper are missing.
@christian I think there is plenty of posts from me how "bioavailability" of copper works. When I say we need very little copper it means somewhere from 1 to 5 mg. For sure not 10-20-30 mg that is completely crazy. Btw I am not talking from my ass. I was in "omg I have crazy copper deficiency symptoms I need copper" mode for years.. Fortunately for me I was not ingesting anything close to 30mg. I would be dead now for sure.. I posted this link like 100 times already. There is EVERYTHING that you need to know about issues with copper https://coppertoxic.com/ Every time I read from that website for example how people feel emotionally and how they think etc. with copper issues. I almost star crying.. How spot on it is.. Btw that website is from the guy who lost his wife due to suicide that he believes it was due to copper toxicity. That's why he is so interested in it and wants to help others. Otherwise it is mostly female issue because the main culprit for copper retention is estrogen.. I had/have issues with copper due to not taking anti estrogens while taking steroids..
@jiri - thanks for the link to the copper toxicity site. It will be interesting to compare the claims on that site to the claims in the book by Jason Hommel.
Hommel will not be liked by those that are not fans of Dr Smith, even though Smith and Hommel are currently fighting online. Like Dr Smith, Hommel is quite religious. On his recent appearance on the Extreme Health Radio podcast, Hommel and the host discussed how people before the biblical flood were able to live to more than 900 years!
What matters to me is who is right. There are a lot of experimenters on Hommel's Facebook group reporting excellent results.
900 years?! And I was worried that Anthony Chaffee might be stretching it by claiming that we should all live to a healthy 120... lol
It's certainly possible for people who believe that crazy stuff to be right about some things, but it's clear that their ability to reason through objective evidence is compromised, which then makes everything else they say much more suspect.
Here's data on the ages of people in the Hebrew Bible / Old Testament.
https://biblerevelation.org/2016/01/age-of-bible-characters/
I have some chelated copper pills from swanson. So I will try taking 2mg a day. I was never taking copper in supplement form. Now when I think about it basically all sources of copper from food are high in oxalates. So I wonder if that negative effect comes from oxalates and not from copper.. Anyway I will take 2mg a day for now and will report back what it does to me..
Andrew Baird posted this on GS’s network
I have absolutely no idea what the truth is but here it suggests that supplemental copper could increase risk of Alzheimer’s. He says that copper from food and supplemental copper are different. I’m sure you know this @jiri as it’s your area of expertise.
My understanding of copper comes from the pyroluria world where people tend to be low zinc and high copper. However, people show signs of copper deficiency as the copper is biounavailable due to being free and not bound to ceruloplasmin. They say it’s the free copper that can accumulate in the brain and elsewhere. A lot of people track this and work out % free copper. Is this correct? I don’t know.
It’s not an area I’ve done a deep dive into. My copper is always high on hair tests but less high now than it used to be. Does this high hair copper indicate copper toxicity or copper loss? Am I less copper toxic now, am I making more ceruloplasmin or has something else changed? The lowest copper I ever had on a hair test was after covid which doesn’t correlate with it being improved health! Who knows. Different people have told me different things.
The more I learn, the less I ‘know’.
Edit: on the copper revolution FB page they say the dose where benefits are seen is 5mg. Less than that causes people to feel ill. This struck me as quite odd and correlated with the idea of high dose causing cholestasis stopping toxicity getting in to blood. I just don’t know though. There seems to be some bright people on the copper site. I would personally never supplement anything in such a high dose. Seems counterintuitive to me. From my understanding the body doesn’t like big changes.