I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Please
Login to create posts and topics.
Copper and CERULOPLASMIN
Quote from
Jiří on April 29, 2022, 4:35 am
@jaj I don't think that copper from supplements like chelated copper is different than copper from foods. It just copper from foods comes with other minerals so if you have a lot of copper from buckwheat for example you will have also a lot of manganese and other minerals that compete for absorption so you don't absorb that much.. I just had one 2mg pill and I feel a lot of racing mind. It's not nice feeling.. Heh I think that I will stop this experiment for now.. In my case I had a lot of blood tests with a lot of free copper. So for me it's probably bad idea even take low dose like 2mg.. If your hair copper is high it can mean that you eliminate the excess(copper dump) but to learn how much is free(damaging) you have to do blood test for copper and ceruloplasmin at the same time.. Feeling bad on dose less than 5mg and feeling good on higher dose doesn't make any sense.. The problem is that they try to take copper for like a drug effect and not for fixing some deficiency and that will back fire sooner or later..
@jaj I don't think that copper from supplements like chelated copper is different than copper from foods. It just copper from foods comes with other minerals so if you have a lot of copper from buckwheat for example you will have also a lot of manganese and other minerals that compete for absorption so you don't absorb that much.. I just had one 2mg pill and I feel a lot of racing mind. It's not nice feeling.. Heh I think that I will stop this experiment for now.. In my case I had a lot of blood tests with a lot of free copper. So for me it's probably bad idea even take low dose like 2mg.. If your hair copper is high it can mean that you eliminate the excess(copper dump) but to learn how much is free(damaging) you have to do blood test for copper and ceruloplasmin at the same time.. Feeling bad on dose less than 5mg and feeling good on higher dose doesn't make any sense.. The problem is that they try to take copper for like a drug effect and not for fixing some deficiency and that will back fire sooner or later..
Jenny, puddleduck and Retinoicon have reacted to this post.
JennypuddleduckRetinoicon
Quote from
Jiří on April 29, 2022, 4:35 am
I just had one 2mg pill and I feel a lot of racing mind. It's not nice feeling..
Jason Hommel posted in his Facebook group that the minimal effective dose of copper is 5 mg per day. In fact, he states
From the experiences of members in the forum, my observations are that people who take 1-3 mg of copper do not get any detox cleansing, they only get detox reactions and appear to stay stuck.
So your experience at 2mg may agree with the experiences of members of the Facebook group as summarized by Jason Hommel.
Quote from
Jiří on April 29, 2022, 4:35 am
I just had one 2mg pill and I feel a lot of racing mind. It's not nice feeling..
Jason Hommel posted in his Facebook group that the minimal effective dose of copper is 5 mg per day. In fact, he states
From the experiences of members in the forum, my observations are that people who take 1-3 mg of copper do not get any detox cleansing, they only get detox reactions and appear to stay stuck.
So your experience at 2mg may agree with the experiences of members of the Facebook group as summarized by Jason Hommel.
I agree with @jiri - it makes no sense that you should have negative reactions below a certain amount but positive reactions above that amount, unless the "positive" reactions are somehow drug-like and really not desirable for long-term health improvements.
There's a similar argument for thiamine supplementation that has never made much sense to me... People are being told to megadose for long periods of time because it's "therapeutic" and not necessarily correcting a deficiency. At least the thiamine proponents are openly acknowledging that they are going for a drug-like effect, although I tend to disagree with this approach because it's probably just shocking the body into a reaction instead of addressing whatever the actual problem is through proper nutritional support. Maybe it's the only way some people have found to feel better, but it just seems wrong to me.
I agree with @jiri - it makes no sense that you should have negative reactions below a certain amount but positive reactions above that amount, unless the "positive" reactions are somehow drug-like and really not desirable for long-term health improvements.
There's a similar argument for thiamine supplementation that has never made much sense to me... People are being told to megadose for long periods of time because it's "therapeutic" and not necessarily correcting a deficiency. At least the thiamine proponents are openly acknowledging that they are going for a drug-like effect, although I tend to disagree with this approach because it's probably just shocking the body into a reaction instead of addressing whatever the actual problem is through proper nutritional support. Maybe it's the only way some people have found to feel better, but it just seems wrong to me.
puddleduck has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Jiří on April 29, 2022, 10:27 pm
Dr. Smith goes crazy. Now he thinks that even copper is maybe not essential and basically compares is to mercury? That is over the top lol... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTX_nTOtGtI
Dr. Smith goes crazy. Now he thinks that even copper is maybe not essential and basically compares is to mercury? That is over the top lol... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTX_nTOtGtI
Jenny and puddleduck have reacted to this post.
Quote from
Jenny on April 30, 2022, 7:48 am
Yeah don’t agree with Dr S on copper. Don’t think supplementing 30mg is a good idea either. @jiri you seem to be talking the most sense about copper around these parts!
Yeah don’t agree with Dr S on copper. Don’t think supplementing 30mg is a good idea either. @jiri you seem to be talking the most sense about copper around these parts!
puddleduck has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Jiří on April 29, 2022, 10:27 pm
Dr. Smith goes crazy. Now he thinks that even copper is maybe not essential and basically compares is to mercury? That is over the top lol... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTX_nTOtGtI
I didn't think that Dr Smith's video was crazy, although he may or may not be correct.
I wonder how Dr Smith can distinguish the symptoms of copper toxicity from the symptoms of vitamin A toxicity? If people are vitamin A toxic, inspired by Jason Hommel I wonder if copper would not go up in the body to deal with the vitamin A toxicity?
I doubt there have been autopsy or biopsy studies looking at copper in the liver, although I haven't looked for such studies myself. Anyway, how does Dr Smith know that copper accumulates in the liver like vitamin A does?
Quote from
Jiří on April 29, 2022, 10:27 pm
Dr. Smith goes crazy. Now he thinks that even copper is maybe not essential and basically compares is to mercury? That is over the top lol... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTX_nTOtGtI
I didn't think that Dr Smith's video was crazy, although he may or may not be correct.
I wonder how Dr Smith can distinguish the symptoms of copper toxicity from the symptoms of vitamin A toxicity? If people are vitamin A toxic, inspired by Jason Hommel I wonder if copper would not go up in the body to deal with the vitamin A toxicity?
I doubt there have been autopsy or biopsy studies looking at copper in the liver, although I haven't looked for such studies myself. Anyway, how does Dr Smith know that copper accumulates in the liver like vitamin A does?
Quote from
Armin on April 30, 2022, 10:25 am
Quote from
Jiří on April 29, 2022, 10:27 pm
Dr. Smith goes crazy. Now he thinks that even copper is maybe not essential and basically compares is to mercury? That is over the top lol... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTX_nTOtGtI
I didn't think that Dr Smith's video was crazy, although he may or may not be correct.
I wonder how Dr Smith can distinguish the symptoms of copper toxicity from the symptoms of vitamin A toxicity? If people are vitamin A toxic, inspired by Jason Hommel I wonder if copper would not go up in the body to deal with the vitamin A toxicity?
I doubt there have been autopsy or biopsy studies looking at copper in the liver, although I haven't looked for search studies myself. Anyway, how does Dr Smith know that copper accumulates in the liver like vitamin A does?
If the human liver is anything like the cow liver:
Beef Liver
Beef liver contains the most amount of copper per serving of any food. Whether braised or fried, a 4-ounce serving contains 16,070 micrograms, more than 18 times your daily value. It's such a rich copper source that sources advise eating it only once weekly to avoid possible toxicity symptoms.
The liver plays an important role in the disposition of copper. Most dietary copper passes through the liver where it can be used for protein and energy production or excreted through the biliary route. Because copper is a prooxidant, its intracellular handling is tightly managed.
Liver-copper concentrations were estimated in 95 patients with liver disease by neutron activation analysis of liver samples. The method is simple, sensitive, and specific, and allows estimations to be made on very small needle-biopsy samples (2-3 mg.). The normal range was found to be 15-55 μg. copper per g. dry liver. Levels of greater than 250 μg. per g. dry liver were found only in Wilson's disease and long-standing biliary obstruction, both intrahepatic (as in primary biliary cirrhosis) and extrahepatic. There was no diagnostic confusion between these two groups of patients, as those with biliary obstruction and high liver-copper levels had definite clinical and biochemical features of cholestasis. In patients with biliary obstruction the liver-copper level was related to the duration of symptoms. In other liver diseases, liver-copper levels were normal or moderately increased.
Quote from
Jiří on April 29, 2022, 10:27 pm
Dr. Smith goes crazy. Now he thinks that even copper is maybe not essential and basically compares is to mercury? That is over the top lol... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTX_nTOtGtI
I didn't think that Dr Smith's video was crazy, although he may or may not be correct.
I wonder how Dr Smith can distinguish the symptoms of copper toxicity from the symptoms of vitamin A toxicity? If people are vitamin A toxic, inspired by Jason Hommel I wonder if copper would not go up in the body to deal with the vitamin A toxicity?
I doubt there have been autopsy or biopsy studies looking at copper in the liver, although I haven't looked for search studies myself. Anyway, how does Dr Smith know that copper accumulates in the liver like vitamin A does?
If the human liver is anything like the cow liver:
Beef Liver
Beef liver contains the most amount of copper per serving of any food. Whether braised or fried, a 4-ounce serving contains 16,070 micrograms, more than 18 times your daily value. It's such a rich copper source that sources advise eating it only once weekly to avoid possible toxicity symptoms.
The liver plays an important role in the disposition of copper. Most dietary copper passes through the liver where it can be used for protein and energy production or excreted through the biliary route. Because copper is a prooxidant, its intracellular handling is tightly managed.
Liver-copper concentrations were estimated in 95 patients with liver disease by neutron activation analysis of liver samples. The method is simple, sensitive, and specific, and allows estimations to be made on very small needle-biopsy samples (2-3 mg.). The normal range was found to be 15-55 μg. copper per g. dry liver. Levels of greater than 250 μg. per g. dry liver were found only in Wilson's disease and long-standing biliary obstruction, both intrahepatic (as in primary biliary cirrhosis) and extrahepatic. There was no diagnostic confusion between these two groups of patients, as those with biliary obstruction and high liver-copper levels had definite clinical and biochemical features of cholestasis. In patients with biliary obstruction the liver-copper level was related to the duration of symptoms. In other liver diseases, liver-copper levels were normal or moderately increased.
Jenny, puddleduck and 3 other users have reacted to this post.
JennypuddleduckBeataRetinoiconCarnivore
Thanks @armin. Do we know if the copper is the cow or bull's liver to help with vitamin A toxicity in the liver or if the copper is just being stored in the liver because copper is toxic in excess?
Thanks @armin. Do we know if the copper is the cow or bull's liver to help with vitamin A toxicity in the liver or if the copper is just being stored in the liver because copper is toxic in excess?
Quote from
Armin on April 30, 2022, 1:54 pm
Thanks @armin. Do we know if the copper is the cow or bull's liver to help with vitamin A toxicity in the liver or if the copper is just being stored in the liver because copper is toxic in excess?
The Moore's hypothesis concerning a relationship between the metabolism of copper and that of vitamin A led us to consider a possible relationship between this vitamin and ceruloplasmin, the carrier protein for copper. Experiments were carried out on Sprague-Dawley rats. The ceruloplasmin level of control animals and vitamin A - deficient rats was determined. An average increase between 22 and 33% was observed in the animals with vitamin A deficiency, the highest levels being observed in the females. These results are in agreement with Peterson's previous work. A second type of experiment was carried out to confirm these results. The rats were raised in a copper-deficient diet and the vitamin A level was regularly determined. In these conditions serum and liver levels of vitamin A are normal and do not vary, ceruloplasmin level is zero; however apoceruloplasmin is still being synthetized : Nevertheless at the ultime (final) state of the deficiency vitamin A level decreases while apoceruloplasmin increases.
At the very least, this study suggests that Vitamin A isn't required for ceruloplasmin production.
It is interesting that apoceruloplasmin was produced, even when copper levels were at a deficient state.
As copper when down, so did Vitamin A.
Thanks @armin. Do we know if the copper is the cow or bull's liver to help with vitamin A toxicity in the liver or if the copper is just being stored in the liver because copper is toxic in excess?
The Moore's hypothesis concerning a relationship between the metabolism of copper and that of vitamin A led us to consider a possible relationship between this vitamin and ceruloplasmin, the carrier protein for copper. Experiments were carried out on Sprague-Dawley rats. The ceruloplasmin level of control animals and vitamin A - deficient rats was determined. An average increase between 22 and 33% was observed in the animals with vitamin A deficiency, the highest levels being observed in the females. These results are in agreement with Peterson's previous work. A second type of experiment was carried out to confirm these results. The rats were raised in a copper-deficient diet and the vitamin A level was regularly determined. In these conditions serum and liver levels of vitamin A are normal and do not vary, ceruloplasmin level is zero; however apoceruloplasmin is still being synthetized : Nevertheless at the ultime (final) state of the deficiency vitamin A level decreases while apoceruloplasmin increases.
At the very least, this study suggests that Vitamin A isn't required for ceruloplasmin production.
It is interesting that apoceruloplasmin was produced, even when copper levels were at a deficient state.
As copper when down, so did Vitamin A.
puddleduck and Retinoicon have reacted to this post.
puddleduck has reacted to this post.
Like this:
Like Loading...
