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Copper and CERULOPLASMIN
Quote from kathy55wood on May 5, 2022, 4:26 am@Jaj so ceruloplasmin actually does NOT have a relationship to copper, would that be correct?
what? ceruloplasmin is the main transport of copper. Without it you will experience copper deficiency...
As someone who ate a bunch of liver and has been trying to understand the signs of chronic copper toxicity vs Vitamin A toxicity, I don't see much overlap between copper toxicity symptoms and Vitamin A toxicity symptoms...how can Hommel can call these conditions similar?
Regarding the copper toxic sheep paper, it seems pretty difficult to draw any firm conclusions from it except that copper toxicity in the blood is somehow strongly correlated with low retinol in the blood.
They write at the beginning of the Discussion, "In the liver no relationship between the two nutrients could be seen; retinol reserves within the normal range were present in specimens that contained virtually no Cu, or much more than the normal amount."
Therefore, high copper in the liver does not guarantee high retinol in the liver. It seems to me that the only consistent relationship they've identified occurs in a sudden state of crisis where the liver dumps a bunch of copper into the blood, and removing that copper from the blood rapidly stabilizes the pre-existing positive relationship between copper and retinol in the blood.
@r-2 bro 🙂 I don't know how to calculate free copper, but lower copper and lower ceruloplasmin is ok.. Just eat balanced diet (like 10:1 zinc to copper ratio) and don't worry about tests... Keep your money. That will lower your stress and low stress means better copper metabolism.. 🙂 Maybe what you can look for is ferritin and if it's more than 50 donate blood.. I need to do also some tests. Last couple of months I was eating a lot of red meat. I am probably iron toxic lol..
Started using low dose copper sulfate a few weeks ago and it’s been a game changer for me since going low VA. In October 2 months after being low VA, my ferritin levels were still high, lymphocytes were very low in bloods which hasn’t happened before(sign of copper deficiency), I felt cold,had low energy and motivation which are a signs of low thyroid function and also copper deficiency. Copper is needed for thyroid hormone synthesis. Copper is also essential for regulating iron in the body and proper iron absorption and activating ceruloplasmin.
My low magnesium levels have never gone up on hair tests despite heavy supplementation and trying every different form of it.
I assumed it was because either I had low ATP production needed to utilise the mag, copper toxicity, b1 deficiency, lithium deficiency (lithium is needed to retain magnesium, or high beta alanine which showed on my urine amino acid test a few years ago which impairs taurine metabolism (taurine is needed to retain magnesium and potassium in the cells)
I always did get some gabaergic relaxing effects from taking magnesium, but it was only after I added in copper sulfate, did I start feeling complete mental clarity and clearness from when I took magnesium and much more energy. The magnesium with copper also completely wiped out the autistic symptoms ive been getting from being low VA. I also now get the same effect when I take glycine ite complete clearness and mental clarity when I didn’t get that before the copper supplement. Copper helps retain magnesium, it’s also needed for ATP production.
The trouble with high copper foods like cashews and dark chocolate that I tried is they’re also high in iron and other metals which compete against copper. I did get increased energy from these foods but the effects were nothing like taking copper on its own.
I have used copper in the past and developed serious copper toxicity but I was so much more toxic back then, had poor mineral status so it caused me to accumulate the copper and develop copper toxicity. When I took the copper back then it didn’t work the same as when I’ve been taking it this month. If one has good potassium levels, good NA/K ratio or adrenal strength, lower CA/Mg ratio, doesn’t have copper toxicity then copper supplementation will work as the body is able to utilise the copper but if one doesn’t have these requirements then copper supplementation will be a disaster. I personally find the only way to get potassium levels up sufficiently is through eating lots of pressure cooked or steamed veg. Parsnips are a good low VA one, they also contain calcium which helps absorb copper. When I don’t eat the cooked veg I don’t get the same benefits from copper. Potassium helps absorb and retain the copper.
I think people who are running into problems on the detox could be from a lack of copper thats bioavailable. Copper is antibacterial, antiviral, antifungal, antagonising copper heavily with zinc, selenium, molybendum and just eating high iron foods like red meat and grains can encourage pathogens and bad microbes to grow which will cause gut issues like SIBO to occur. Without bioavailable copper iron will rise causing oxidative stress and DNA damage. Glyphosate chelates also copper to a Ph of 1 meaning it clears out any copper we have in the gut so there is none avaliable to use. I tolerate red meat and iron foods much better when I take copper with them.
I get signs of increased exertion of VA when taking copper eg more yellow urine, my bile flow doesn’t get shut off either, I am going more regularly than before and stools are more solid.
@alexm yeah taking copper pills feels good. Until it doesn't... It's drug like effect from stimulation of nervous system and adrenals. I would never take metals like iron or copper in pill form. Copper is absorbed very well from foods. I don't see how some iron from cashews can block absorption of copper. How you find out that you have enough of copper and you stop taking pills? When you get toxicity? Do you test ceruloplasmin and free copper?
I’m only taking low dose copper sulfate drops so like 0.1.-0.3mg per dose everytime that’s all my body is asking for. Yeah I still felt effects of copper from cashews but it was not the same as taking copper sulfate on its own. Now glycine and magnesium finally work perfectly as they should be working since adding in the copper sulfate. I’m expecting my high ferritin levels to finally go down in my next blood test and my low magnesium levels to finally go up in my next hair test now.
I supplemented copper twice before this, once in 2020 with copper gluconate 1mg per day for a couple of months and that seriously messed me up for a year afterwards with bad copper toxicity. Then again in September 2021-februrary 2022 but this time with zinc. The trouble was both these times I was very low in potassium, much more toxic than I’m now and had poor adrenals, clogged liver detox pathways, so copper made this issue worse in the end and also didn’t work the way it should be working even when I was taking it. One of these times I also had lost the lid of my copper supplement so I was stupidly taking oxidised copper which will have made things worse. I don’t think copper gluconate is a bioavailable form either.
In May my gallbladder stopped working so I started having beans for soluble fiber everyday for most of this year, I started taking black radish which is a copper antangoist and dissolves gallstones after taking this I was able to have zinc again with no issues and me feel good when before it would cause me bad symptoms. August I found out I had developed VA toxicity, so I went low VA and all copper toxicity symptoms returned for a month or two like bad depersonalisation, bad autistic symptoms, bad anxiety extreme neurotransmitter issues, taking low dose zinc and molybdenum helped at the start but maybe after a couple of weeks even a few mg of zinc would give extremely dry mouth and diabetes symptoms and I couldn’t tolerate iron foods like red meat or oat bran at all. I also felt very cold the whole time this was in august/ September, had 0 energy and motivation, blood test in October showed my lymphocytes had become very low which is a sign of copper deficiency. I only tested blood copper once in May and it was low but zinc was higher, I’ve never tested ceruloplasmin but I suspect I had low ceruloplasmin as everytime I’ve done stuff to increase ceruloplasmin I’ve felt better. I personally think most important thing for proper copper utilisation and absorption is to have good potassium levels which I only think you can get from eating lots of cooked veg. I’ve been doing daily coffee enemas since September and my gallbladder and liver are in much better shape now I’m not worried about copper accumulation this time my potassium levels and NA/K ratio are better so I can actually use the and excrete the copper properly and also fix my iron issues.
@jiri I think fixing iron metabolism is key, especially for liver issues maybe fixing that will fix the VA toxicity issues. I’m also taking this Mega IGG 2000 immunoglobulin supplement that contains transferrin and it’s helping me a lot (unlike apolactoferrin which didn’t do anything for me much).
I stopped craving meat since taking the Mega IGG and craving stuff like calcium heavily so I suspect I’m finally moving my own stored toxic iron which I had an overload in the liver.
The build up Fe2 is deadly, we need to move Fe2 to Fe3 then to transferrin as the final step. I was also taking MCP which binds to Fe2 and I found that very helpful too