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Copper and zinc metabolism
@jiri, I've watched a few of the videos you posted above, and it seems he blames a lot of things on "poor liver function and adrenal insufficiency". Well, I've been having people tell me that was my problem my whole life, and I did all kinds of things to help it and it usually backfired.
I'm thinking/hoping liver/adrenal function finally recover once VA overload is less. If you take the liver/adrenal aspect away and all the zodiak, numerology etc stuff away, I'm just seeing the message is "balance your elements especially zinc and copper".
He is selling a treatment, I suppose if that treatment works, then that's good. I suppose there are many ways to interject a "halt" into the downward spiral of VA toxicity. And maybe he is onto one.
@lil-chick yes it is his work to work with people. So obviously he doesn't do it for free. 🙂 He is simply practitioner using hair tissue mineral analysis. There is plenty of them like him. But he is making also videos about it. That's why I showed him and not someone else. Everything what he is saying is matching my experiences. That's why I am also into minerals. Minerals control hormones, hormones controls the body. People who don't understand this work with hormones, but that is wrong. Because by manipulating hormones you are completely mess up minerals in the body. That's exactly what I did with steroids and that is the reason why I am in this mess.. Btw it is great to fix vit A toxicity, but it will not fix everything like some people think...
I've experimented enough with minerals to know that I'm not smart enough to meddle with them, LOL. Yikes. I would even wonder if the time between testing would be so long that you could get yourself into some serious trouble.
Quote from lil chick on August 26, 2020, 1:37 pmI've experimented enough with minerals to know that I'm not smart enough to meddle with them, LOL. Yikes. I would even wonder if the time between testing would be so long that you could get yourself into some serious trouble.
This. It's also illogical to think it's even possible to manage our mineral status, toxicity issues can be aggravated by excesses in the diet, avoiding excessive intake of potentially problematic minerals is about as far as I'd take it. Imbalances occur because of disharmony and dis regulation in our physiology and problems with bio transformation of metals, understanding underlying causes and dealing with them is the only way to help the minerals be in the right place in the right amount and in the right form.
@lil-chick yes if you blindly experiment with minerals it will do more harm than good that's for sure..
@tim-2 there is no better test for overall mineral/metal status in the body than hair biopsy + blood test for systemic proteins to see more clearly what is going on with iron/copper/zinc. By looking at hair test you can clearly see what is your metabolism doing. If you have some serious toxicity or imbalance and if your body is in "exhaustion" state and if so in what stage.
"It's also illogical to think it's even possible to manage our mineral status" what is illogical on that? If you change your diet and life style according to your results you will change your mineral status.. How many hair tests you did? Maybe you would be surprised what would you see..
I guess I agree with Tim (that it appears to me that mineral status is a result rather than a cause). However, I've come to believe that theories only go so far. The proof is in the pudding. And you have to look long term, not first blush. Many things seem to work on first blush. Also, many people walk away without giving negative feedback.
The guy has me coming up with a theory, though, and I think I'll explore it in another thread or my log just because it is probably a blind alley.
One of the things my naturopath used to say is that you need all the minerals. I think many naturopaths will suggest a supp that is full spectrum (such as concentrace) in order to help if there is a blockage due to a lack of some mineral--without the difficulties that might arise from doing single minerals Sea salt is the food version of this, as are foods from the sea.
To return to the original post, 2 things:
- Regarding hair-testing mineral-balance protocols:
It appears to me that mineral balancing via hair/blood analysis doesn't of itself cure VA overload. Or else Dr Smith wouldn't be spending so much time thinking about it.
Can curing VA overload help with mineral balance? Unknown yet. But it sure appears that Dr. Smith is hopeful of this. (I'm not his patient, just from watching his vids)
2. The original post talks about oxygenation of the body. Something has been going through my mind all week regarding this. It sounds like a deadpan joke, LOL. If we WANT to be oxygenated (which sounds good to me) why does everyone tell us to eat anti-oxidants? Is this just pro-plant poison hype?
from the google machine: "Carotenoids are pigments which play a major role in the protection of plants against photooxidative processes. They are efficient antioxidants scavenging singlet molecular oxygen and peroxyl radicals. In the human organism, carotenoids are part of the antioxidant defense system." hmm
"I guess I agree with Tim (that it appears to me that mineral status is a result rather than a cause)"
it can be one or the other or both.
In terms of vit A toxicity and mineral balancing. I don't know why you mixing the two together all the time. Yes they can effect each other but trying to balance your minerals will not detox your liver from vit A and detoxing vit A will not fix your mineral imbalance obviously.. But I get it. People simply like to think that they will just detox vit A and everything else will work perfect. Well if it is your only problem than yes, but for most people their health issues are not just due to one single thing...
Btw you are mixing oxygenation of tissues with pro oxidants and anti oxidants.. Completely different things..
@ggenereux2014 thank you for the comments and I think I'll be back until every single people I know is completely healed (or I drop dead) - that's my "nature" and I will not be able to rest until everyone I know who's trying to get better is well and healthy (except people who don't want to be so and don't want to do/test anything - I don't want and cant force them)
@jiri thank you for the comments. Of course you should never try to convince anyone nor should I. I see it like this: we are here to learn openly and help each other so people can regain their health (or you personally if that's your only goal). I have personally no problem whatsoever but have many people I love struggling with issues and my one and only goal is to help them (and as much people as possible) by understanding the whole thing if that's possible. In other way, the only important thing here is TRUTH (if that TRUTH is completely contrary to what I say and think fine!). Anyway, glad you have taken the time to write and post the links.
@all others thank you all for your comments
Now, I have approx 20 people "following" me in a separate group and doing all kings of analyses and trying to understand what's going on. From your comments, all the analyses I have gathered so far and my own "meditation" on the subject, I would say the following (it is only a THEORY so it may be completely wrong but that is the synthesis I get right now in the process):
2 things I am pretty sure about now (from experience and results):
- A few people are zinc toxic and respond to zinc restriction and chelation (they have too much zinc and low copper on their DMPS analyses and in their zinc urine and their symptoms go away with lowering zinc until it gets to normal levels). Whether people believe this or not doesn't change the fact that it is so. Many people here in the "West" part of Switzerland consume lots of meat (pork/beef) and red wine and take zinc supplements so it may be very "regional" but I am quite sure you can find those kind of people everywhere as well. MOST people are however, as you say, copper toxic while at the same time exhibiting symptoms of copper deficiency because of lack of transport proteins. One person was calcium deficient (without other problems, she already healed as mentionned in one of my other posts). A few have other toxicities (manganese is what I have seen once, aluminum and mercury I see that quite often but it goes away once people know and avoid them).
- THE CENTRAL PROBLEM seems to be by taking "A" poison and various METALS without adequate protein (ex: someone takes accutane, he has LOTS of A and no protein with it, or someone takes zinc or copper supplements without protein or someone eats liver which has WAY TOO MUCH A & COPPER WITHOUT adequate PROTEIN). Then the problems start because those excesses accumulate. If once or twice etc. it is not a problem but if repeatedly you end up having big stocks of A and metals not transported, not used, and basically simply accumulated and then the problems start. Then to make things worse digestion doesn't work well so you have even less usable protein etc. etc.
In summary, if you consume lots of protein and A, copper, etc. there will never be any problem (which was my case almost my whole life until I tried the Grant's diet last year, without much effects until now because I have nothing worrisome to start with - I'll do the diet until end of year then add some "A" foods to see whether there is a difference or not that I could not see without but I guess it will not be a problem except if I start taking accutane or A supplements or I don't know what - I believe A is a toxin but you can "handle" it) because the transport proteins will not be faulty, the A and metals will be used/removed and the system will work great. If, however, you have not enough protein for whatever reason and too much A or metals, they cannot be properly used, transported, removed and will accumulate. Once the accumulation is too big, problems start and accumulate up to a point where life is unbearable and people start searching for answers but at that point it is usually already a very broken system they have.
I don't know how to really explain it well in english but you get the point. I guess (only a guess which has to be tested) that consuming high protein diet (through lots of beef for example) and avoiding A & the metals you are toxic in should not only heal you quite fast but also minimize the "side effects" of the detoxification. Basically, to remove the excess A&copper (majority of people), a diet very rich in zinc and protein (and all the other things which come up with the whole food) should do the trick. If you are toxic in zinc, then getting your protein without zinc and even chelating it should help. etc. I will come back home soon and analyze much more in detail the various people's analyses etc. talk about it and hope they increase protein in the diet etc. so I'll see what happens not only with detoxification on itself but also the so-called side-effects. I'm pretty sure that complete protein in very good quantity while avoiding A and the metals you're toxic in will do the trick but have to get the "proofs" by experience. I'll be back with that in a few months once people have had the time to test it and to make new analyses etc. (few of them do A & DMPS analyses every 6 months or so so it should be interesting to get an update once they increase drastically the protein/beef part). I sent an e-mail also asking them how much protein they consume so I can compare with the rate of detox when possible (I expect to find a positive correlation between higher prot consumption and faster A lowering but it's maybe just wishful thinking).
If you think what I've written is completely wrong or some part maybe dubious/dangerous please write here so I take it into account (if you have personal direct experiences it is much better so)! Thank's once again!
"In summary, if you consume lots of protein and A, copper, etc. there will never be any problem"
I agree amino acids are very important, but it is not black and white like that. I was eating high protein diet and had problems.. If your adrenals and liver doesn't work how they should. You will have low transport proteins even if you have as much amino acids as you need... Also it is not just about transport proteins. If you are low in B vitamins, zinc, vit C and other micro minerals like molybdenum, chromium, manganese etc.. You will have issues with high free copper.. But maybe the biggest factor in todays world is estrogen. When you have high estrogen for some reason. You will retain copper. More estrogen=more copper... Once you retain more copper your adrenals will have hard time to keep up and once they are exhausted. Once your co factor micronutrients are depleted you will have low ceruloplasmin and high free copper. Also copper is eliminated mostly with bile. Estrogen makes your bile thick. Most people with estrogen issues have issues with bile production, gallstones etc.. So you can't even eliminate the excess of copper.. People simply don't understand that minerals influence hormones and hormones influence minerals.. Today estrogen is everywhere + estrogen is in many ways like copper because if you don't have good liver function and all the co factors to detox estrogen your estrogen will go up and the more estrogen you have the harder it is for the body to detox it.. Simply the body is complex and everything is connected. You can't just say that if you have enough protein you will never have any issues with copper etc.. You want help people that is great. But you can't generalize. You need to look at every person separately and analyze what is going on with their body.. Ideally do all tests you can and look at their diet, life style if they were exposed to some toxins in the work, if they are under stress for some reason etc.. You can't give one protocol to all people. What will help one can kill another..