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#51 · October 23, 2021, 12:34 pm

Quote from Hermes on October 23, 2021, 12:34 pm

Quote from rockarolla on October 19, 2021, 9:55 am

This whole discussion about antibiotics eludes me. I've taken some in the past, mainly Doxycycline to reduce the bacterial load in the small intestine. But about the immune system? Not sure I follow the gist.

This is some advanced tricks with abxs I've learned from Marshall ideas @ mpkb.org (*) that for chronic disease states mega/standard dosing is almost always useless since it leads to relapse in like 90% of all cases and only mini dose pulsing should be used instead to not modulate immune system while at the same time make it more healthy by cleaning out pathogens residing in white cells(primary monocytes).

doxy is worser than minocycline since it penetrate immune cells not as well, also there is additionally azithromycin which could be combined with mino and in case of azithro cells even actively soak it in, like they do for example with vitamin D(to activate VDR), vitamin C, zinc, copper.

(*): https://youtu.be/fejbuovCxjs?t=2795

@rockarolla

As far as I understand from the video you provided, this is the gist of it:

Low-dose antibiotics (abxs) block the protein synthesis which targets the ribosome.

It is important not to overwhelm the body's immune system by taking too high a dose of abx.

Why? As the bacteria is being killed, toxins will be released which trigger an immune response. This is called immunopathology which can be described as the body's reaction to the death of the bacteria.

This is why it's advised to spread the therapy over many years. This is particularly important for patients who are very sick. Healthy people don't notice much from high dose abxs use. They don't feel any immunopathology.

External symptoms don't reveal the true nature of how sick a patient is and how affected their organs like heart, kidneys, and brains are. A better marker is the amount of immunopathology that can be observed in a patient.

Therapy can be structured in several phases:

Phase 1 (3-month period): Usually the abx of choice is minocycline.

Phase 2 (9-month period): To the minocycline another abx will be introduced, usually azithromycin.

After twelve months, when multiple antibiotics have been introduced, the patient's immune system has usually kicked in. From twelve months to three to six years, there is a variety of therapies being used depending on a particular patient.

Common complaints by patients when killing off bacteria:

Photo sensitivity: the retina of the eye is very active b/c of vitamin D metabolism. Many genes are there that are transcribed by vitamin D receptors (vdr)

Sensitivity to light of the skin

Less common: skin eruptions, shortness of breath, suicidal ideation, bipolar, OCD.

These pathogens are nasty and must be respected, which is why therapy must be slow and steady, other than the immunopathology will overwhelm the patient.

Vdr activation at the heart of many chronic diseases. During abxs treatment, blood work is usually off the charts but will normalize again (kidney markers and others). A high fluid intake is advised. Between 18 and 53 months, 81% of the cohort experienced reduced disease and symptoms.

In closing, this approach sounds very promising. To me, it is entirely new. Thanks for pointing it out. I have doxycycline, azithromycin, and ivermectin on hand. In my case, it's small bacterial overgrowth that's bothering me. So beans really don't work well with me at the moment. Also, too much starch lowers my temperature too much. I have a few questions:

How has your experience been so far with this approach described in the video? Have you made any progress with the symptoms that have been bothering you?

Do you actually take daily low doses of 10 mg to 25 mg of abxs? So in total, for one year in the beginning, after three months are up, you add in another abxs for the remaining nine months.

Why is it advised to use minocyline? Does is penetrate the cells best? I've read it also enters the brain, and I think it chelates aluminium, if I'm not mistaken. On the flipside, I've also read it suppresses mitochondrial respiration. People take it against acne for long periods of time, up until several months, but probably in way too high dosages.

Here I'm going on a limb: I think vitamin D is also antimicrobial and actually leads to too much bacterial die-off when I supplement with it. I've never been sure about it. I sleep better with it, but I find myself being nervous when I supplement it. It's very different to get vitamin D from the sun. This feels really good. For the winter I've bought a face tanner that I use on my torso, tummy, back, sides.

Quote from rockarolla on October 19, 2021, 9:55 am

This whole discussion about antibiotics eludes me. I've taken some in the past, mainly Doxycycline to reduce the bacterial load in the small intestine. But about the immune system? Not sure I follow the gist.

This is some advanced tricks with abxs I've learned from Marshall ideas @ mpkb.org (*) that for chronic disease states mega/standard dosing is almost always useless since it leads to relapse in like 90% of all cases and only mini dose pulsing should be used instead to not modulate immune system while at the same time make it more healthy by cleaning out pathogens residing in white cells(primary monocytes).

doxy is worser than minocycline since it penetrate immune cells not as well, also there is additionally azithromycin which could be combined with mino and in case of azithro cells even actively soak it in, like they do for example with vitamin D(to activate VDR), vitamin C, zinc, copper.

(*): https://youtu.be/fejbuovCxjs?t=2795

@rockarolla

As far as I understand from the video you provided, this is the gist of it:

Low-dose antibiotics (abxs) block the protein synthesis which targets the ribosome.
It is important not to overwhelm the body's immune system by taking too high a dose of abx.
Why? As the bacteria is being killed, toxins will be released which trigger an immune response. This is called immunopathology which can be described as the body's reaction to the death of the bacteria.
This is why it's advised to spread the therapy over many years. This is particularly important for patients who are very sick. Healthy people don't notice much from high dose abxs use. They don't feel any immunopathology.
External symptoms don't reveal the true nature of how sick a patient is and how affected their organs like heart, kidneys, and brains are. A better marker is the amount of immunopathology that can be observed in a patient.

Therapy can be structured in several phases:

Phase 1 (3-month period): Usually the abx of choice is minocycline.
Phase 2 (9-month period): To the minocycline another abx will be introduced, usually azithromycin.
After twelve months, when multiple antibiotics have been introduced, the patient's immune system has usually kicked in. From twelve months to three to six years, there is a variety of therapies being used depending on a particular patient.

Common complaints by patients when killing off bacteria:

Photo sensitivity: the retina of the eye is very active b/c of vitamin D metabolism. Many genes are there that are transcribed by vitamin D receptors (vdr)
Sensitivity to light of the skin
Less common: skin eruptions, shortness of breath, suicidal ideation, bipolar, OCD.

These pathogens are nasty and must be respected, which is why therapy must be slow and steady, other than the immunopathology will overwhelm the patient.

Vdr activation at the heart of many chronic diseases. During abxs treatment, blood work is usually off the charts but will normalize again (kidney markers and others). A high fluid intake is advised. Between 18 and 53 months, 81% of the cohort experienced reduced disease and symptoms.

In closing, this approach sounds very promising. To me, it is entirely new. Thanks for pointing it out. I have doxycycline, azithromycin, and ivermectin on hand. In my case, it's small bacterial overgrowth that's bothering me. So beans really don't work well with me at the moment. Also, too much starch lowers my temperature too much. I have a few questions:

How has your experience been so far with this approach described in the video? Have you made any progress with the symptoms that have been bothering you?
Do you actually take daily low doses of 10 mg to 25 mg of abxs? So in total, for one year in the beginning, after three months are up, you add in another abxs for the remaining nine months.
Why is it advised to use minocyline? Does is penetrate the cells best? I've read it also enters the brain, and I think it chelates aluminium, if I'm not mistaken. On the flipside, I've also read it suppresses mitochondrial respiration. People take it against acne for long periods of time, up until several months, but probably in way too high dosages.

Here I'm going on a limb: I think vitamin D is also antimicrobial and actually leads to too much bacterial die-off when I supplement with it. I've never been sure about it. I sleep better with it, but I find myself being nervous when I supplement it. It's very different to get vitamin D from the sun. This feels really good. For the winter I've bought a face tanner that I use on my torso, tummy, back, sides.

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#52 · October 23, 2021, 1:21 pm

Reading the mpkb.org, I wondered if solanaceae alkaloids with their "anti-inflammatory" properties can really cause problems. I also think that an excess of vitamins such as B can unnecessarily feed pathogens, causing more problems than benefits.

@rockarolla what do you think about iodine supplement?

P.s. Thanks for the links, now I understand why I react badly to folic acid supplements. Apparently, I'm a typical candidate for the Marshall Protocol.

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#53 · October 25, 2021, 11:48 am

Today during lunch I took the first dose (25 mg) of minocycline. There was no immunopathology or anything like that. Moreover, it seems that I got better. But it didn't last long and could be a coincidence.

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#54 · October 25, 2021, 11:58 am

Quote from Даниил on October 25, 2021, 11:48 am

Today during lunch I took the first dose (25 mg) of minocycline. There was no immunopathology or anything like that. Moreover, it seems that I got better. But it didn't last long and could be a coincidence.

I remember the first time I took some minocycline. I felt really clear-headed. It was years ago. Where do you get your minocycline from? Alldaychemist.com carries it, but their payment methods don't suit me well.

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#55 · October 25, 2021, 12:04 pm

Quote from Hermes on October 25, 2021, 11:58 am

Quote from Даниил on October 25, 2021, 11:48 am

Today during lunch I took the first dose (25 mg) of minocycline. There was no immunopathology or anything like that. Moreover, it seems that I got better. But it didn't last long and could be a coincidence.

I remember the first time I took some minocycline. I felt really clear-headed. It was years ago. Where do you get your minocycline from?

At the nearest pharmacy here, in Moscow. I was able to buy without a recipe. However, this is with a bunch of titanium dioxide and microcrystalline cellulose. But it seems to be the only manufacturer in my country. Ordering from abroad, I think, is too difficult. Especially since I don't have a recipe.

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#56 · October 25, 2021, 12:13 pm

That sounds so lax. Getting it without a prescription. Yeah, those adjuvants are problematic.

Have you considered taking Olmesartan? I'm just reading up on the mpkb.org website, and they highly recommend it. But the marshall protocol itself is super limiting, also in regards to light exposure. They even recommend to wear special glasses to block UV light. It's sounds really not realistic to do it the hardcore way.

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#57 · October 25, 2021, 12:31 pm

Quote from Hermes on October 25, 2021, 12:13 pm

That sounds so lax. Getting it without a prescription. Yeah, those adjuvants are problematic.

Have you considered taking Olmesartan? I'm just reading up on the mpkb.org website, and they highly recommend it. But the marshall protocol itself is super limiting, also in regards to light exposure. They even recommend to wear special glasses to block UV light. It's sounds really not realistic to do it the hardcore way.

I think Russia has a little different mentality and there is less enforcement of laws inherent in Western countries, and more corruption. So it's probably easier here.

Yes, I'm thinking about it. Although I'm not completely sure yet that my problems are caused by bacteria. It doesn't seem to be cheap.

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#58 · October 25, 2021, 12:51 pm

I have some dilemma about the fact that some of my symptoms may be caused by VD deficiency, but the Marshall Protocol prohibits vitamin D.

VD increases cortisol sensitivity, and I suspect that my dips into hypoglycemia may be caused by a lack of cortisol. Also, balance problems and cramps can be caused by vitamin D deficiency.

Although I raised my vitamin D level to 60+, but that was 5 months ago, and people say that this diet depletes vitamin D.

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#59 · October 25, 2021, 2:28 pm

Yeah, I've noticed too that the price for Olmesartan is pretty steep. I don't think I'll be able to pull it off with a doctor. In the past when I've asked about antibiotics or something that's just a little out of line, doctors wouldn't be supportive. Usually they're the one who make plans for patients, so they really don't like it when you come up with your own ideas. It's a pity they're the gate keepers of medications.

Do you understand why Olmesartan is helpful in the process of clearing bacteria in the body? I haven't learned that part yet. It's prescribed to lower high blood pressure as far as I understand. So it would be off-label use. If I want to try it, I need to find an online pharmacy.

I'm pretty sure that my problems are related to excess bacteria, mostly in the small intestine. I use cascara sagrada in the morning, and I have dabbled with antibiotics for years. Before going low vitamin A I was eating a diet inspired by Ray Peat, and he points out the problems with endotoxins in the body.

I don't get the VD part on the marshall protocol. I definitely feel better when I'm on holiday and exposed to hours of sunlight. It's androgenic too. Lots of sunlight makes me also sleep much better. I'm more conflicted about supplementing VD. Usually I end up not feeling that well, especially after a while.

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#60 · October 25, 2021, 2:46 pm

Quote from Hermes on October 25, 2021, 2:28 pm

Yeah, I've noticed too that the price for Olmesartan is pretty steep. I don't think I'll be able to pull it off with a doctor. In the past when I've asked about antibiotics or something that's just a little out of line, doctors wouldn't be supportive. Usually they're the one who make plans for patients, so they really don't like it when you come up with your own ideas. It's a pity they're the gate keepers of medications.

Do you understand why Olmesartan is helpful in the process of clearing bacteria in the body? I haven't learned that part yet. It's prescribed to lower high blood pressure as far as I understand. So it would be off-label use. If I want to try it, I need to find an online pharmacy.

I'm pretty sure that my problems are related to excess bacteria, mostly in the small intestine. I use cascara sagrada in the morning, and I have dabbled with antibiotics for years. Before going low vitamin A I was eating a diet inspired by Ray Peat, and he points out the problems with endotoxins in the body.

I don't get the VD part on the marshall protocol. I definitely feel better when I'm on holiday and exposed to hours of sunlight. It's androgenic too. Lots of sunlight makes me also sleep much better. I'm more conflicted about supplementing VD. Usually I end up not feeling that well, especially after a while.

As far as I understand, according to Marshall's theory, the VDR receptor participates in the immune response, but when there is too much of the 1,25-oh (vitamin A increases it, and fructose, by the way, reduces it), the immune system does not see pathogens. Also, bacteria produce substances that (also) block this receptor. High levels of D-25 also cause dysregulation of the VDR receptors. And olmersatran is an agonist of VDR, apparently by coincidence. This is my understanding, perhaps Rockarolla will explain it better.

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