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Eggs as part of Vitamin A reduction
Mee too. I can digest meat and bread separately just wonderful, but if I combine them in one meal, my belly does not feel so right. I like to eat one thing at one meal, my taste buds enjoy it more too! I like very simple food these days. like only meat with salt.
Or spelt bread without yeast with plain butter. I never want anything else on it.
When there is too many ingredients it kinda taste yucky to me...lol And my digestion works so well with simple foods too.
In case some are interested in reviewing, the post against eggs/choline being used in low VA
My Vitamin A Toxicity group response to Twitter egg/choline thread.
1. The Japanese consume the most eggs per capita in the world. They also have one of the best records for longevity. But is one egg a day significant enough to lay a claim for good or bad. 2. Epidemiological studies are fraught with difficulties. Trying to detect the difference from 1 egg a day. A person eating lots of eggs may be eating liver or all plant food or eating lots of pancakes. 3. Eating more than 4 eggs a week reduce chances of fatty liver disease for men considerably in the Iranian study. 4. Rats were fed 5 grams of lecithin. A rat could weigh 70 grams. A human could weigh 70 kilograms. A factor of 1,000. An egg contains 1.5 grams of lecithin. This is like feeding a human over 3,000 eggs. 5. A person eating 800 grams of beef plus 150 grams of beans and a tablespoon of butter per day (355 IUs of Vitamin A) will consume more choline than a person on 300 grams of beef plus 4 eggs. Very roughly someone on over 600 grams of beef and beans will consume similar choline to a person on 400 grams of meat and 3 eggs. The less eggs the low meat person eats then the likelihood a higher beef person will get more choline. Associating high choline with all cause mortality ropes in a lot of people doing Vitamin A reduction. 6. High choline intake could include beef liver which is over 50 times higher Vitamin A than eggs per 100 grams. You may need to pick studies that identify eggs, meat and liver separately as the Vitamin A levels are very different. Poorer ethnic populations may eat more eggs AND liver. Red meat may include liver. Liver is the highest choline containing food NOT eggs. 7. Bile salts include phosphatidylcholine and sphingomyelin (both high in eggs). 8. What level of choline results in problems ? I'm certainly not advocating more than 1 gram of choline. Problems have only been identified at 3.5 grams or more a day for adults. All high beef eaters are roped into the equation if you're saying above 550 mgs per day. I'm also not advocating more than 5 eggs a day as it's early in the experiment although low meat eaters may want to experiment. 9. It's a strange notion that a person eating one egg a day with 250 IUs of Vitamin A is going to have difficulty detoxing it while a person eating one tablespoon of butter with 355 IUs is okay to eat as they want. Because there's choline in the eggs ? There's some choline in butter too. The person eating 2 eggs a day at 500 IUs is not much more than the tablespoon of butter and less than 2 tablespoons of butter at 710 IUs. Beef patty and butter on a roll okay but egg bad. Illogical. 10. A healthy person could on average at a pure guess be detoxing 15,000 IUs a day. We know people have got worse health problems from 30,000 IUs of Vitamin A supplements a day for 4 years so when does 300 IUs a day extra cause a problem with this anti-egg theory ? 400 years from now !
Quote from Inger on December 13, 2022, 1:46 amMee too. I can digest meat and bread separately just wonderful, but if I combine them in one meal, my belly does not feel so right. I like to eat one thing at one meal, my taste buds enjoy it more too! I like very simple food these days. like only meat with salt.
Or spelt bread without yeast with plain butter. I never want anything else on it.
When there is too many ingredients it kinda taste yucky to me...lol And my digestion works so well with simple foods too.
Dr. Gundry talked about this a while back. Might be relevant. It's about how your first meal of the day should be a mono meal; either only carbs, only protein, or (later on) only fat. It's about the mitochondria and how they can't really switch between fuel sources for most people. They are missing the metabolic flexibility (for now) because of how diets and food have been for us for a long time. I've seen this mentioned in other places online as well.
(just search the page for mono meal)
I actually might add this to my regimen as well, and just start the day with some cooled white rice. I am basically one meal a day right now. But that does mean I put all my carbs (few), protein and fat (lots of) together at the same time.
Has Gundry not heard of the Randle Cycle? Seems like Bart Kay is light years ahead of him on this topic.
Quote from wavygravygadzooks on December 13, 2022, 11:08 pmHas Gundry not heard of the Randle Cycle? Seems like Bart Kay is light years ahead of him on this topic.
Bart Kay is awesome haha. Although I don't think he'd be on board with this Vitamin A detox business. What do you think?
I actually did a consultation with Bart Kay this past summer and tried to explain why I was pretty sure I was suffering from Vitamin A toxicity. He very slightly left open the possibility that you could get Vitamin A toxicity from eating organs, dairy, and eggs, but he essentially was flatly denying that was the cause of my problems because he'd never seen a verified case of it. I was thoroughly disappointed he was so dismissive. I think he's too focused on his YouTube trash talk channel...I wish he'd use his knowledge and intelligence more productively. I know he's just trying to make a living and it's hard to do that by speaking the truth these days, but what he's doing is such a waste.
Quote from wavygravygadzooks on December 14, 2022, 12:47 pmI actually did a consultation with Bart Kay this past summer and tried to explain why I was pretty sure I was suffering from Vitamin A toxicity. He very slightly left open the possibility that you could get Vitamin A toxicity from eating organs, dairy, and eggs, but he essentially was flatly denying that was the cause of my problems because he'd never seen a verified case of it. I was thoroughly disappointed he was so dismissive. I think he's too focused on his YouTube trash talk channel...I wish he'd use his knowledge and intelligence more productively. I know he's just trying to make a living and it's hard to do that by speaking the truth these days, but what he's doing is such a waste.
Yes it's not a big surprise that Bart was not receptive to the Vitmain A toxicity theory. His career depends on his credibility and the Vitamin A toxicity stuff is considered quackery by most.
That said, i've learned a lot from Bart's channel and certainly been very entertained. I find him hilarious.
My bias is towards the carnivore way of eating and I have been a patient of Paleomedicina who I greatly admire. Unfortunately for me I seem to be the only patient of theirs who cannot tolerate retinol in liver, kidneys or anything else.
Zsofia Clemens is able to achieve miraculous things with the PKD diet despite the fact that it is high in retinol. What the long term impact of this will be I don't know but many of their patients would not be alive if not for the PKD. They have the world record Glioblastoma patient still alive 7 years after diagnosis. A condition with an average survival of 3 months.
Like Bart she would not accept my severe poisoning every time I attempted to comply and eat liver. This has left me in 'no man's land' eating close to PKD without organs and trying to learn as much as I can about detoxing Vitamin A.
Accutane was the cause of my problems.
Looking at my detox patterns over the past 3,5 years I am more and more convinced that quitting eggs 2 years ago and eating a low beef diet (I used to crave beef but then it became difficult to enjoy regularly so I switched to chicken) has hindered my detox by what seems to be too low in choline (it could also be too low in protein.) I seem to manage 1 egg ok now but 2 eggs plus sourdough bread and a bit of quinoa pushes the detox still too hard, so I’ve tried adding a bit of psyllium in and it does seem to help soak up the extra bile. But how do I know I am detoxing? I am pooping sticky brown stools with a bit of yellow leaking out. Whatever it is eggs and bread seem to trigger immediate detox or too much bile. At the 3 year mark I was feeling really good for a while, probably bc I was not detoxing AT ALL, thinking I was seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I really don’t think there is enough protein in 2 eggs to trigger detox… I am really giving this choline theory a try.