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Fat
I do think it's very unfortunate that @henrik was eating eggs and then they started to disagree with him. Immediately feeling bad seems like a food intolerance. The tiny amount of retinol could cause a sensitivity problem but generally he seems to be doing okay so I dont see why that would happen here (0.000075 of a gram) . I do think the diet uses up choline and we probably started low especially people with gluten problems like me. Feeling symptoms a few hours later would indicate a stronger detox and leakiness. So it's important to distinguish the issues. Egg yolks being the safest as more people react to egg whites. A difficulty with sulfur ?
Henrik could do what you have done @christian and use a lecithin powder or phosphatidylcholine supplement to then help you tolerate eggs. The eggs are supplying a lot of phosphatidylcholine, good selenium, choline, biotin and iodine so they are providing something extra to eating meat for choline.
Adding eggs in a choline deficient state can certainly increase detox, from my experience. PC is required for phase 2.5 of liver detox - where bile transfers from hepatocytes (liver cells) to bile canniculi. If this is a block, addressing it could cause a detox increase, which if leakiness present (likely) could make one feel bad. Also, PC removes toxins from cell membranes which adds to toxin load and could make someone toxic feel much worse. But there are, of course, other reasons why eggs don’t suit some people.
However, if it’s to do with choline deficiency then it’s sometimes those that need choline the most (like me) who need to go the slowest with the re-introduction. I have no doubt that I got severely choline deficient but re-introducing quickly did not make me feel well. Low and slow seems to be working and my ALT has come down from 160 to 90 and latest test was 70. Hopefully, going in the right direction rather than the wrong one (as I was on the low choline version of the vA detox that I did).
Quote from Hermes on June 1, 2023, 7:26 pm
It's interesting that you say that you think that once you're healed, you can eat eggs again. Andrew's idea is the opposite: eggs are supposed to help with healing because of the high choline. Or maybe your vitamin levels are already pretty low, you're not that toxic, and so the benefit of the extra choline doesn't outweigh the problematic retinol in the yolk.
Well its just based on my geneeal idea that if a food is not obviously toxic I should be able to eat it. I am unfortunately sure I still have a lot of stored A - recently got a flareup of orange skin again. Im not sure if its the retinol, the sulphur or something else like histamin or other stuff and I dont care too much. I think maybe its the retinol for me as also dropping butter was helpful, and I tolerate whites much better than the yolk. Im definately not reacting to the choline as I am eating a kilo of meat a day ca and that amounts to much more than a single egg. Having said that Im always reacting quickly to all substances. suplementing lecitin also did nothing but maybe induce some farting, nothing else but I get it from my apples anyway.
@jessica2
Edit: Also I have been low VA for a year with weight doing nothing but climbing steadily. I stopped weighing after hitting 180 in depression and frustration. If weight responded purely to toxin ingestion, I honestly should have LOST something since I was not eating massive amounts of A anymore, and eating fiber and organic food more often.
If liver function is impaired in some way weight gain can occur. An example of this is choline deficiency causing NAFLD.
When you stop eating vitamin A your liver can then go into vitamin A (and other toxins) dumping mode. If liver function is already poor especially if autoimmunity is present this can result in worsening liver function. This can help explain why it can take some so long to deplete vitamin A.
Are you supplementing with lecithin? In my opinion high egg intake can stress an already overwhelmed liver with all the cholesterol and vitamin A so I prefer lecithin for liver support.
500mg taurine per day might be helpful as well?
How's your gut function?
Are you following a "healthy lifestyle" avoiding caffeine, smoking and sunbathing? Not suggesting you do any of those things but caffeine reduces retinoic acid production and smoking and sunbathing destroy lots of vitamin A (before it even becomes retinoic acid).
Literally the only other ways to deplete vitamin A aside from normal bile and urine excretion are through liver flushes, getting viral infections, intentional hookworm infections and using emetics (can be toxic and dangerous). Not very appealing right?
Maybe that helps to see why I'm a fan of sunbathing, smoking the odd organic cigarette and drinking weak coffee.
Quote from AlexM on May 21, 2023, 1:25 pm@jessica2 Was just curious how did you find this Peskin guy because I have never heard of him before until you mentioned him.
With all the knowledge about PUFA being toxic to the thyroid are you not concerned about that with all this new seed oil consumption? Lots of people on the RP forum mention that PUFAs start off by having an anti inflammatory effect in the body but over time they start causing real damage and havoc.
For example 2 months into low Vit A I started eating organic smooth almond butter, at first it was making me feel great and skin looked much better. But then gradually my thyroid and immune system started shutting down, I was freezing the whole time and very ill.
Keep in mind that almonds are full of oxalates, phytates, enzyme inhibitors and lectins. Almond oil is lower PUFA than many seed oils.
What happens if you consume a seed oil rather than nut butter?
I'm not saying high PUFA is good btw, I think it's best to keep PUFA intake low.
I think we tend to only consume significant amounts of nuts when we are trying to eat healthily or on a restrictive diet. When we're eating what we want i.e. including foods made with white flour, sugar, fat and meat we don't tend to have much desire to eat nuts.
I enjoy a small amount of almond milk and the occasional nut chocolate and I'm done. No way would I choose to eat nut butter unless I'm hungry with no other options.
People that promote EFA balance and consumption of certain nut/seed oils are contradicting basic facts about normal fatty acid intakes and the nature of our physiology.
@lil-chick wrote:
I gave up on calories-in-calories-out long ago. It just doesn't stand up to my reality. Your body decides lots of things on it's own including how much fat to keep on board and how much muscle. Some of it is genetic, and some of it is in reaction to life. It's so much more complex (insulin resistance is a good example of that) than basic math.
I'm not saying that if you starve an animal it won't loose weight. But talk to any person such as me who "just doesn't gain" and you will find that no matter how much that person eats, he or she just doesn't gain.
True but remember that malabsorption is often a significant factor in people that are underweight.
If calories in/calories out was true, dieting would be so much more useful and successful.
The body can dispose of excess protein without metabolizing it for energy but I think calories in/out is true for carbs and fat. Once a fatty acid or sugar is absorbed it must be burned unless a ketone body or a sugar is excreted in the urine. The fallacy though is that the rate of metabolism is static and the same for everyone, it isn't as evidenced by hypothyroidism causing hypometabolism.
There's even another toxin in almonds I forgot to mention which directly relates to thyroid function: thiocyanate.
Thiocyanate not only interferes with the uptake of iodide but also on the iodination of thyroglobulin. Thiocyanate is therefore, a potent antithyroid substance and may cause hypothyroidism at high concentrations [22].
After the feeding of the cyanogenic plants in experimental animals for a prolonged period, the TPO activity of thyroid of the treated animals was reduced markedly [29-42].
Feeding of cyanogenic foods viz., bamboo shoot [39-41], radish (Raphanus sativus Linn) [34-36], cassava (Manihot esculata crantz) [34-36], maize (Zea mays Linn), cabbage, cauliflower, mastered etc. decreased the serum total T3 and T4 levels significantly.
Good question. I'm not sure but it does seem that it is common for drugs to inhibit alcohol dehydrogenase and retinol dehydrogenase.
In people with subclinical chronic Hypervitaminosis A that aren't aware of the problems of excess vA in the diet some drugs may temporarily reduce the symptoms of Hypervitaminosis A. Unfortunately this can just promote vA bioaccumulation in the long term because less retinyl ester in the liver is being converted into retinoic acid yet vA consumption is still high.
I think it's common for people to use caffeine like this.
Quote from tim on August 31, 2023, 10:32 pm@lil-chick wrote:
I gave up on calories-in-calories-out long ago. It just doesn't stand up to my reality. Your body decides lots of things on it's own including how much fat to keep on board and how much muscle. Some of it is genetic, and some of it is in reaction to life. It's so much more complex (insulin resistance is a good example of that) than basic math.
I'm not saying that if you starve an animal it won't loose weight. But talk to any person such as me who "just doesn't gain" and you will find that no matter how much that person eats, he or she just doesn't gain.
True but remember that malabsorption is often a significant factor in people that are underweight.
If calories in/calories out was true, dieting would be so much more useful and successful.
The body can dispose of excess protein without metabolizing it for energy but I think calories in/out is true for carbs and fat. Once a fatty acid or sugar is absorbed it must be burned unless a ketone body or a sugar is excreted in the urine. The fallacy though is that the rate of metabolism is static and the same for everyone, it isn't as evidenced by hypothyroidism causing hypometabolism.
Have to agree with @lil-chick on this one. I used to be unable to gain weight at 53 kgs eating 5000 calories a day including up to a pound of chokolate (basically fat and sugar with a little milk protein). I even drank saturated solution of sugarwater.