Quote from tim on February 13, 2019, 5:37 am

Gelatin has a protein sparing effect and supplies amino acids the body needs that are in shorter supply in meat.

You can eat the ends of chicken bones, make jelly or you can make home made stock.

Home made chicken stock from chicken frames is great stuff. I own a ceramic Le Creuset stock pot which is recommended that way you don't get metal contamination in your stock.

Quote from Guest on February 13, 2019, 9:34 am

@tim - those Le Creuset's are really nice in the kitchen. When we lived next to a Whole Foods we used to buy a roast chicken and eat the easy stuff and slow cook the rest for another couple meals of stock and left-over tidbits of meat. Throw in some rice and spices and it's like going to heaven.

@liz - yeah, that was me, incognito, forgot to sign in again. Dig this. I took 8 grams of Glycine last night between 5pm and 11pm, and woke up at 4am as rested as could be, then another 6 grams between 4am and 10am. Guess what disappeared? Foamy urine! Mine has been off and on for some part of 6 months, but major on for a couple of weeks now. If that continues, it might be a clue of some sort that could be meaningful to someone who understands things better than I do.  I noticed that Dr. Brind's SweetAmine also has L-Proline and Taurine in it. Easy enough to replicate (I'm not big on Stevia). It reminds me of Linus Pauling's side-kick Dr. Matthias Rath who promoted a mix of Proline, Lysine and Vitamin C to interrupt and repair arterial membranes. He wrote a popular book about it and we used to do some of it back in the 90's. I think the product is still around as Heart Plus. Off to search for that bile salt connection. I like the Recent Activity feature at PubMed. It keeps track of everything, papers viewed, searches made. It comes in handy.

Quote from Guest on February 13, 2019, 9:36 am

edit - "interrupt the inflammatory process and repair …"

Quote from ZJ on February 13, 2019, 9:54 am

I've been taking glycine for months and it definitely helps with sleep but that's about it. All my other symptoms are still going strong.

Quote from Guest on February 13, 2019, 10:55 am

Quote from Liz on February 12, 2019, 11:46 pm

[spoiler][/spoiler]Quote from Guest on February 12, 2019, 9:44 pm

Wow, just scratching the surface on Glycine makes me really hopeful about it's potential. I think one of Dr. Joel Brind's major contributions is identifying an amount required for therapeutic effect - an unexpected 8 grams a day. I'd like to see more on that, but I'm giving it a go this coming week. This paper might help in the search for a retinoid connection, but even if it doesn't, the information seems to be essential. This is such basic, foundational stuff. It really reinforces Grant's caution about getting enough protein for sure. The liver-protection aspect alone is worth the price of admission! You know, this could be one of those things that if ignored, might slow down or impede the progress of going on a low-A diet, and the person lacking enough Glycine wouldn't have any idea of why they were having such a rough-go, if they hadn't run across the benefits of increasing their intake. It sounds like it should easily help people get over the bumps in the road and mitigate the detox flare-ups.

The whole article is available at

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5855430/  

Hope it's OK to put this over under PubMed papers too.

Ochsner J. 2018 Spring;18(1):81-87.

Dietary Glycine Is Rate-Limiting for Glutathione Synthesis and May Have Broad Potential for Health Protection.

McCarty MF¹, O'Keefe JH², DiNicolantonio JJ².

Author information

Abstract

Background:

Glutathione is a key scavenging antioxidant that opposes the proinflammatory signaling of hydrogen peroxide. Boosting cellular glutathione levels may have broad utility in the prevention and treatment of disorders driven by oxidative stress. Supplemental N-acetylcysteine has been employed for this purpose. Could supplemental glycine likewise promote glutathione synthesis?

Methods:

We conducted a review of the pertinent literature using PubMed.

Results:

Tissue glycine levels are lower than the glutathione synthase Michaelis constant (K_m) for glycine. When glycine availability is too low to sustain a normal rate of glutathione synthesis, the consequent rise in tissue levels of gamma-glutamylcysteine leads to an increase in urinary excretion of its alternative metabolite 5-L-oxoproline. The fact that urinary excretion of this metabolite is elevated in vegetarians and others consuming relatively low-protein diets strongly suggests that dietary glycine can be rate-limiting for glutathione synthesis in normally fed humans. Moreover, supplemental glycine has been reported to increase tissue glutathione levels in several animal studies. Glycine is a biosynthetic precursor for porphyrins, purines, creatine, sarcosine, and bile salts; is an agonist for glycine-gated chloride channels and a coagonist for N-methyl-D-aspartate receptors; inhibits protein glycation; and increases hepatic production of pyruvate, an effective scavenger of hydrogen peroxide. Supplemental glycine may have the potential for improving endothelial function, preventing cardiac hypertrophy, aiding control of metabolic syndrome, preventing the complications of diabetes, dampening inflammation, protecting the liver, and promoting effective sleep.

Conclusion:

Clinical research is warranted to evaluate the impact of supplemental glycine on glutathione levels and on various health disorders.

 

You found this one as well, isnt it a fascinating study or what Thank you for copy pasting it and highlighting the interesting bits so all can read without entering the link itself, that was really helpful

It would be so interesting if someone who has struggled getting results will try supplementing with glycine and see if they notice any positive effect from it. However I believe it is imperative to avoid glyfosate as much as possible as well.

@bella that was amazing to read!! It gives me hope that my super brain will return as well. I got my bachelor's when my brain was the worst and I have never struggled that much with anything my entire life. It was horrible. I started on my masters as well but after 6 months was so burned out physically and mentally i decided to drop out. I did pass my first big exam though but cried for hours afterwards, from stress release. I really want to go back to school one day but it has not been possible due to brain not working. But now I have hope again

@ john (fry?) - all guests are confusing are you the one posting the study above or are you still hunting down some studies as mentioned? Either way everything is welcome. Most things have been published already, the hard part is finding them and connecting the dots. But I believe together that is possible! What you wrote about the Nigerian friend and his grandfather is very interesting and I wonder which root vegetables was his main staples. I am thinking maybe cassava? Fasting I fully believe to be beneficial, after my surgery now 2 weeks ago i was fasting for 2 days and then eating very small amounts of date + almonds (had to force eat, doctors orders) for another 2-3 days. The last of my eczema went away with that and I have had no vit A related symtoms since so I might hold on to that regular fasting part. But in order to gnaw the caryilage off the chicken must have been cooked for quite some time else it would be crunchy rather than mushy. I am really craving some oxtail now. I love the slimy mushy cartillage parts Keep us updated on the glycine supplementation

Liz, I’m glad to hear your surgery went well! Bella

Quote from Orion on February 13, 2019, 11:26 am

Quote from ZJ on February 13, 2019, 9:54 am

I've been taking glycine for months and it definitely helps with sleep but that's about it. All my other symptoms are still going strong.

I took sweetamine for a full year, a few years back after the posts on 180degree, plus been using GL's collagen for years as well, no change in symptoms.   Done so many diets, supplements, all the aminos, vitamins, exercise, etc, etc, etc...   closing in on 4 months zero vitamin A, and everything is changing, feels like finally finding the silver bullet.

I do believe that glycine is an important part of getting balanced with aminos from muscle meats and egg whites.  Plus it is required for bile, glutathione and the thyroid activating D1 enzyme, among many other important reactions.

Quote from Liz on February 13, 2019, 10:30 pm

@john that sure is an interesting detail, with the foamy urine disappearing. Come to think of it, my yellow-orange poo has changed color again, unsure if it is glycine related or not as I am more pink than beige these days. I take taurine besides glycine but have not thought of proline. Will have to look it up 🙂

I wonder overall if an intake of glyfosate while taking glycine can mask the positive effects of glycine, and/or if having vit a poisoning (where glyfosate sure is contributing) can affect it as well. Brind mentioned somewhere that effect could take a few years to notice. I dont believe glycine to be "the answer" but it sure seems to be involved. Maybe someone could tip off dr G and have him go nuts on it as well? 🤔 The more brains, the merrier...

@bella thans. It was long and complicated but nothing less of a miracle. Cyst size of a melon was removed from both ovaries and both was saved (amongst other things done). I have declined hormonal therapy because I must find out if this is related to vit A poisoning, not only for my sake but for all other women as well suffering from this. If it starts to grow back I will get on menopause treatment as they wish, but it might not grow back. Will raise a separate thread for this later on when I have a bit more material, because i am going to need help with figuring that out as well, but it seems endo is actually autoimmune and not reproductive disease in which case it might be related to A poison.

Quote from puddleduck on February 15, 2019, 12:53 am

Quote from Liz on February 11, 2019, 10:54 pm

Quote from Guest on February 11, 2019, 7:59 pm

Quote from Liz on February 10, 2019, 4:57 am

Guys, I need help to figure this out.

I remembered an old post at 180degreehealth by Joel Brind, who is, to put it mildly, very pro glycine supplementation.

I hadn'read it since it was published and going back ro re-read i cannot help to think there might be a connection between glycine deficiency and vitamin A based on all the positive findings Joel write about here (and at other places at 180d): http://180degreehealth.com/glycine-immune-system/ like, glycine helped reduce severe sunburn.

This one brings up pathways relevant for the Price article below: http://180degreehealth.com/diet-inflammation-part-4/

And then I stumbled over this, who seems at first focus on folic acid issues but then get more into depth with glycine - glyfosate - retinol (just ignore the dietary advice at the end for obvious reasons).

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/folic-acid-glyphosate/

It seems as if glyfosate can "replace" glycine and to me this is a bit scary since glycine is a part of glutatione, the mother of all antioxidants.

I would love if anyone could help me dig a bit deeper to see if we can come to understand this a bit better. Glycine is (due to diet, or glyfosate, or both?) also more deficient these days as it occur most in skin and tendons and not in muscle meat hence an imbalance can more easily occur of one relies on muscle meat alone (or goes vegan).

Great stuff Liz, thanks for the link to Joel Brind. I just finished reading his article and the comments. Wow. I'll start looking at papers and see if I can find anything useful.

That would be very helpful Guest I dont have the same study-reading stamina as I used to and there are a lot of sharp brains im here . Just creating this post and finding the review study link knocked me dead (as in I fell asleep). Btw I think Brind did a 4-part glycine piece at 180d and it was the part 4 I posted. Very interesting comments and good questions too, I think

 

^ Can relate to the study-reading difficulty. XD Think I reached my limit for today. This is interesting, though! I think I may have a half-used box of sweatamine in the cupboard... Took it years back but didn’t notice any improvement so stopped taking it (also, I agree with John about stevia :P).

@bella Congratulations on passing your big test! 😁 That’s just plain awesome.

@orion How wonderful you’re seeing significant improvements in just 4 months! 😃

Quote from hillcountry on February 19, 2019, 8:37 am

Multifarious Beneficial Effect of Nonessential Amino Acid, Glycine: A Review https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5350494/

From an in vivo study, it was demonstrated that certain melanomas like B16 and hepatic cancer can be prevented by glycine as it suppresses the endothelial cell proliferation and angiogenesis. Benign prostatic hyperplasia, schizophrenia, stroke, and some of the rare inherited metabolic disorders can be cured by glycine supplementation. The harmful effects of certain drugs on kidneys after organ transplantation can be protected by glycine diet. The dreadful effects of alcohol can be reduced by glycine. Glycine can be applied to skin to cure some wounds and ulcers in legs and it is most commonly used in treating ischemic stroke. Glycine exhibits prophylactic effect against hepatotoxicity. 2 g of glycine per day is required by the human body and it is to be supplied by diet. Tumor necrosis factor,inflammation, and activation of macrophages are inhibited by glycine. Some of the other functions of glycine are bile acid conjugation and chlorophyll production and it has vital role in many reactions such as haem, purine, and gluconeogenesis. Glycine lowers the level of superoxide ions from neutrophils through glycine gated chloride channels. The major drawback of glycine oral supplementation is that it is quickly metabolized in the digestive system. Intestine has several types of membrane transport systems which use glycine as the substrate to increase the cellular uptake. The epithelial irritation and damage caused by the trinitrobenzene sulfonic acid or dextran sulfate sodium were cured by glycine. The ability of glycine to change the multiple cell types further highlights the difficulty in dissecting the several modes of glycine function in reducing injury and inflammation. Glycine supplementation has very good efficacy in protecting against several intestinal disorders and further studies to investigate the specific roles of glycine receptors on epithelial cell and immune cells would help to understand the cytoprotective and anti-inflammatory effects of glycine. Endotoxic and hemorrhagic shock are commonly seen in critically ill patients. Hypoxia, activation of inflammatory cells, disturbance in coagulation, and release of toxic mediators are main factors that lead to failure of multiple organs. The abovementioned events reasonable for multiple organ failure can be significantly inhibited by glycine; therefore, glycine can be effectively used in therapy for shock. Glycine improves function of liver, cures liver injury, and prevents mortality in experimental sepsis caused by cecal puncture and ligation. As glycine is a very successful immunomodulator that suppresses the inflammation, its action on arthritis is investigated in vivo through PG-PS model of arthritis. The 65% of tumor growth of implanted B16 melanoma cells is inhibited by glycine indicating that glycine has anticancer property. Glycine is precursor for a variety of important metabolites such as glutathione, porphyrins, purines, haem, and creatine. Glycine acts as neurotransmitter in central nervous system and it has many roles such as antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, cryoprotective, and immunomodulatory in peripheral and nervous tissues. Oral supplementation of glycine with proper dose is very successful in decreasing several metabolic disorders in individuals with cardiovascular disease, various inflammatory diseases, cancers, diabetes, and obesity.

JF: this one below mentions necrosis throughout, but not much on what kinds of toxins are creating that unnatural and early cell death. It may just be that glycine is great for repairing damage, but there are some aspects that seem to indicate a deeper (and systemic) role for it. The search continues. 

THE ROLE OF GLYCINE IN REGULATED CELL DEATH      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4955867/

The cytoprotective effects of glycine against cell death have been recognized for over 28 years. They are expressed in multiple cell types and injury settings that lead to necrosis, but are still not widely appreciated or considered in the conceptualization of cell death pathways. In this paper we review the available data on the expression of this phenomenon, its relationship to major pathophysiologic pathways that lead to cell death and immunomodulatory effects, the hypothesis that it involves suppression by glycine of the development of a hydrophilic death channel of molecular dimensions in the plasma membrane, and evidence for its impact on disease processes in vivo. The contexts, mechanisms and relevance of glycine cytoprotection to necrotic cell death in vitro and in vivo have since been addressed in several hundred papers and reviews. As we will cover here, this robust and widely replicated behavior that is expressed in multiple forms of necrotic cell damage to parenchymal, vascular, and inflammatory cells of diverse tissues has the potential to play a critical role in the development of immunogenic tissue injury and resulting disease processes. Additionally, it has led to the recognition that glycine can play an important role as an immunomodulator via effects on signaling in multiple inflammatory cells that are separate from the cytoprotection it provides but that can combine with cytoprotection, sometimes in the same cells, to suppress tissue damage during a variety of disease states. The independence of glycine’s effects from those of glutathione is particularly notable given the important cytoprotective actions of glutathione via its antioxidant activity, which was well documented prior to the original glycine study and has been further been reinforced during the past several of years with the recognition of the ferroptosis cell death pathway. In work, using ¹³C-glycine, the main products of glycine metabolism by proximal tubule cells were glutathione and serine, which is consistent with its major involvement in glutathione metabolism and in the folate cycle of one-carbon metabolism. Subsequent work showed strong expression of glycine cytoprotection in multiple types of primary-cultured endothelial cells and in both freshly isolated and cultured hepatocytes. Multiple peripheral macrophage cell lines as well as bone marrow-derived primary cultures are strongly protected against necrosis by glycine. In contrast to its strong effects against other insults to kidney proximal tubule cells, glycine does not protect against iron-induced necrosis of those cells.