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Jenny’s pros and cons of vA detox
@jaj Sorry to hear this, my health and life also got completely ruined (worse than I can ever have imagined) since going low Vit A, I do feel misled somewhat, but I only went low Vit A 4 months ago so I'm hopeful I can turn it around (I’ve been making steady progress since September) as I think you can too, even at times like this when things look so bleak, just remember the human body is an amazing thing and given the right tools, conditions and mindset I believe it can heal from almost anything.
I also got the high glutamate symptoms since going low Vit A, and I've found its to do with glyphosate and other pesticides that become a problem since starting a low VA diet, I only found this out when I briefly came off low VA in October, but when you've been regularly consuming glyphosate foods for a long amount of time its hard to recognise that they're causing these issues. Canned foods are also a big issue with heavy metals, I’ve stopped them too and felt a lot better since stopping them.
I've now become hypersensitive to pesticides, aldehydes since October, I've been meaning to explain in a separate post for a while now because there's a big reason why this happened, but I can now tell which food or clothes have glyphosate, or other pesticides or chemicals on them and which don't, just by touching them. The ones that have the chemicals I react to I will get like a strong high glutamate neurological surge brain fog autistic feeling when I touch them. The organic grains, and veg from the UK mostly seem to have pesticides I react too, but the organic food imported from EU countries like France Nertherlands , Finalnd mainly seem to be good and I have no reaction to them. So like you have mentioned it seems that the VA detox has shut down or overburdened some of my CYP enzymes.
Two things I have found to have majorly helped are: daily coffee and water enemas, which I've been doing since september, usually 1 or 2 a day (they sound like a hassle and nonsense but they are an amazing tool for clearing toxicities) , but the game changer has been Pectasol (Modified citrus pectin) with thiamine hcl and enemas, unlike other binders this binds to stuff in the blood which I think is the key difference. As all the other binders have caused me big issues, especially charcoal which depletes Nutrients that you need to detox stuff.
Since taking the MCP and doing enemas I have the yellow diarrhoea people in here speak about and I am now properly clearing out VA + other toxins and it's also made me started excreting long rope worm mucus biofilm pathogen looking things that are the worst thing I have ever smelt. Every time I get rid of more of these worm thingI have extreme mental clarity, regaining past memories, tolerate foods that have disgusted me on low VA and also become less sensitive to chemicals. Whether they old bits of gut lining, pathogens, biofilms, gut mucosa etc, I'm not really concerned but they are something toxic and I feel much better every time I excrete them. If I have any of these things : beta carotene veg/fruit, Vit C sups then I stop getting these yellow stools and they become pale again and they also don't smell bad. Same thing happens if I have these zinc lozenges that contain Vit C then I stop excreting these pathogen looking things, but when I have high copper foods with the MCP and enemas they I start excreting them like crazy. So I'm thinking about trying copper supplements again too. All the other binders Apple pectin, Zeolite, Charcoal, psylium husk,fulvic acid never did any of this.
I’ve been trying out Thorne phosphatidylcholine last two days too, benefits are it has a very strong parasympathetic calming effect, my face and skin look much more youthful and better than before. Eating organic meat and eggs never gave me these kind of effects. But the negatives are it seems to stop the yellow stools (they become pale again), liver and gallbladder pain comes back, face slimmer, more itchy skin, red lines on nails become darker, heart palpitations therefore I think it is stopping the detox and storing VA in the liver. So I think it is helpful for supporting cell membrane health, methylation and clearing fatty liver but unhelpful for detoxing VA. I am going to test it further though so I can give a proper verdict.
@alexm Phosphatidylcholine does not stop the detox and store the Vitamin A in the liver. It will change the pooping for the better. It takes time though. A high dose of PC might also push the detox a bit in conjunction with zinc, fibre, protein and fat. PC should eventually improve absorption and detox. The science is quite clear about this. Storing vA in the liver is a theory of a Doctor who hasnt done the experiment. Most of the people doing eggs, PC or sunflower lecithin experience stronger detox.
@andrew-b Well these are my own observations and not based on what that person thinks. Since taking the Modified citrus Pectin and getting the yellow diarrhoea stools I now have a strong indicator whether I'm detoxing VA/ carotenoids or not, as when I have orange juice or carrots, the yellow stools stop instantly and become pale, my weight drops drastically and face looks skinny. Same thing seemed to have happened when I took the phosphatidylcholine supplement with the stool colour and frequency reduing and weight dropping. And I only took a small dose from the softgel, as I felt I didn't need anymore than that. Like I said I need to test further just to make sure, but my initial impression is that is traps VA in the liver and stops the detox, however that may not be a bad thing if it is supporting the liver to deal with or store VA better and improving symptoms for people. When I have fats like almond butter my body feels repulsed at the idea of taking the phosphatidylcholine supplement so thats another bad sign to me. I also did try it with the almond butter and I had more gallbladder and liver pain where as without them I get no pain from eating almond butter if it isn't rancid.
I took a phospholipid complex for a year and still developed serious gallbladder issues, and issues with VA toxicity. I also remember a significant decline in memory when I first started the supplement in May 2021. I was actually eating 4 burford eggs a day which have extremely orange yolks for a year 2021-2022 and then some 6-8 eggs a day in the month before my gallbladder stopped working so it's a possibility this contributed to my VA toxicity issues.
Maybe eggs are different to choline supplements for helping detoxing VA as they contain other things too, I have been experimenting with grass fed Ghee which is a strong yellow colour, when I eat the ghee I don't experience this rapid weight loss, yellow extremely thin and unhealthy looking face or pale stools that I get from whenever I eat carrots, orange juice, mango or chocolate. My face actually gained weight when I had the ghee and didn't look yellow or unhealthy. However I did get red hands somewhat and dry mouth and I have been getting sharp gallbladder pains again which I haven't had for months. I saw someone in here that people usually have problems with one form of VA but not the other eg: have issues with plant carotenoids but do fine with animal VA. I'm aware ghee has carotenoids too as well as retinol Vit D choline etc, I have a feeling maybe for some people that consuming animal retinol containing foods may actually help with the detox as a type of signalling to the body. Grass fed butter I reacted badly to but the ghee which is a much darker yellow didn't seem to be bad.
The conclusion I came to about yellow stool is that it’s not just the vA in the stool, although this is part of it. The brown colour is caused by the bile marinating in the gall bladder. If the bile is very toxic then it does not hang around in the gall bladder but gets ejected straight out. Edit: or hang around anywhere for colour change to occur.
So I see yellow stool as reflecting toxic bile that is too toxic to hang around and change colour. This is my current understanding. The toxicity can well be caused by the excess vA but it’s possibly the speed of leaving that’s the main issue? Post covid loose stool was fluorescent yellow. This is my current best fit theory. Anything that makes the bile less toxic (choline??) could change the colour?
1-2 eggs a day and never experienced yellow stools. First 6 months toxicity was high with peeling skin but no lighter pooping colours 🙂
Perhaps the choline in the eggs was enough to protect you from the bile getting too toxic?
"The brown colour is caused by the bile marinating in the gall bladder."
Not sure where you came up with that. Everything I've seen indicates that bile acids/salts are usually yellow-green until bacteria in the intestines act on them. In addition to that, burning yellow diarrhea is reportedly very common among people with gallbladder removal, most likely because they can't control the amount of bile acids being released into the intestines and thereby wind up with excess entering the colon.
Thus, yellow diarrhea could probably be due to both excess quantity or speed of bile acids/salts passing through the colon.
I had bright yellow leach out from solid stools with otherwise normal dark appearance at the beginning of my low Vitamin A experience. Notably, I do not remember experiencing a burning sensation with those BMs. To me, this combination suggests that it was not bile acids/salts that were yellow, but Vitamin A. Later, I got plenty of yellow along with my watery diarrhea that often burned...those BMs very well may have had a bunch of a bile acids/salts in them, no way to rule that out.
I seem to get burning BMs when I'm on a fat-based diet high in lamb and beef tallow, but not when I switch to leaner meat and white rice. At this point, I'm thinking the fatty acids from lamb and beef encourage more retinyl ester deposition in the liver (not that this is inherently bad as dipSmith indicates...the body is just doing what it's built to do by storing Vitamin A from the blood in the liver where it's supposed to be), and if too much of this shows up in the liver too quickly then one of two things seems to be happening: either this leads to bile acid malabsorption in an attempt to prevent any more Vitamin A absorption, and/or it somehow causes extra Vitamin A to come out in the stool (as retinyl esters?), as evidenced by stools that appear waxy and pale very similar to the appearance of tallow, which often have either orange or yellow residue that leaches out of them.
@wavygravygadzooks I think that brown color is from dead red blood cells? Anyway I have yellow stool right now. I have yellow stool most of the time.. But when I was in Croatia for summer work from the first poop there I had dark brown normal looking stool. I come back after 3 months and first poop home yellow again.. Diet in Croatia was mostly potatoes and meat. A lot of meat actually and more olive oil than I would add to food by myself. For breakfast corn flakes with banana and for vegetables mainly cucumbers.. So the biggest difference no oats in Croatia(I couldn't find gluten free oats) and no whey protein and less white rice and a lot of potatoes for every meal basically.. So I wonder what was causing that healthy looking poop in Croatia. There was aplso much less EMF since we have all kinds of radio towers on our apartment building. Or it was due to swimming in the sea or just the diet change I don't know.. But something is making me sick here where I live that is for sure.. Maybe the oats don't do any good for me I don't know. Or it could be that big dose of potassium from potatoes? Or copper from them? I was eating like 1-2kg of cooked potatoes a day for sure.. + there was much more olive oil than I would use at home.. Or it was that huge amount of meat and sea food that I was eating there. Heh who knows. I would like to try that diet here, but I was getting all that meat and sea food for free. I can't affort like 1kg of meat and shrimp etc.. 😀
Well the evidence was from dipSmith, it made sense at the time, but I should know better than to trust it! I won’t be re-reading it all again. BAD seems to be from malabsorption of bile acids in the small intestine so too many reach the colon or production of too many I think. It would be useful to understand why people get the yellow stool. I’m not convinced it’s a good thing but some people seem to think it indicates good detox. One of the many unanswered questions I have about this detox!
@jiri so interesting that you would have such a difference by living in another place with a slightly different diet. This maybe fits with it not being a good sign, if you felt your life was healthier in Croatia? Huge amount of meat and seafood would be a high choline intake.
Interesting that the pattern seemed to change so quickly when leaving and returning to your home.
When you say yellow stool, do you mean the entire thing is like a pale yellow color? I've experienced both normal dark brown solid stool with bright yellow leaching out of it, and overall pale stool that I would not call yellow, it's just pale (wouldn't call it chalky or whitish either, just not the normal dark brown). It actually seems like the pale stools tend to have something orange that leaches out of them, rather than yellow. I haven't really seen the bold yellow in my stools for about a year now, maybe just once or twice when I had a bout of crazy watery diarrhea out of the blue in the middle of the night. I see an orange color leaching out of almost every one of my stools lately though.
The brown color does supposedly come from bilirubin, which comes from red blood cells as you mentioned. The bacteria in the intestines/colon supposedly act on it, which turns it from yellow-orange to brown. So it seems like there are several potential sources of yellow/orange colors in the stool: bilirubin, bile acids, and Vitamin A.
Yeah, since I can't confidently distinguish between the sources of the yellow and orange colors, I'm not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing. All I know is that I never had anything like it until I removed Vitamin A from my diet, and then I started getting it all the time. Until I removed Vitamin A, I was eating a ton of eggs, liver, and plenty of meat. After I removed Vitamin A, I was basically carnivore with 2-3+ pounds of meat per day. I'm almost positive I was not low on choline at the beginning when I started getting the colorful stools, and I'm pretty sure I've been eating enough meat to keep my choline levels sufficiently high throughout my low Vitamin A diet. Based on all this and a constant rotation of Vitamin A toxicity symptoms in the skin that really only started AFTER I cut Vitamin A from the diet, the only conclusion that really makes sense is that all of these things indicate Vitamin A making its way out of the body. It may not have been the best route for minimizing damage, hard to say.