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Labs/Tests

@mmb3664 Interesting! Glad you’re able to track so many things. 👍 It is hard to see trends with so few people, but I am still so curious to see whatever shifts once more of us get closer to Grant’s serum vitamin A levels. 😝

When I last was tested for cholesterol (around 7 years ago, when severely vitamin A toxic and ill), it came back so low my doctor gave me cholesterol supplements, even though I was eating Ben and Jerry’s and doughnuts regularly at the time (trying to gain weight after loosing my appetite by overdosing on sweet potatoes 🤢).

The only thing from your list I got tested recently (a few months ago close to 1.5 years VA for me) was my vitamin D 25-OH at 16 nmol/L (sufficiency is listed as at or greater than 75 nmol/L and deficiency as lower than 25 nmol/L). I wasn’t surprised, because I live in the north and haven’t taken vitamin D supplements since 2018. Are you using the dminder app? Bella told me about it, and she has improved her D levels quite a bit using it.

@mmb3664 what are your health issues. You can have copper overload actually.. THe best testing for this is hair tissue mineral analysis.. In my opinion most people are copper toxic. There is not a lot of healthy people who are real fast oxidizers like small babies who need more copper in the diet... I had copper in hair and also in the blood always low. Now finally my copper in the blood sky rocked.. During summer heat when I am overheated and sweat almost 24/7. So the body(adrenals) were stimulated to the max. So the body could dump copper from the liver to the blood... Now I dropped all foods high in copper, started with vit C, molybdenum, manganese, zinc, chromium.. It is crazy how it changes your body. I feel much more calmer already.. Copper is strong stimulant. That will deplete your body to the point of complete crash if it severe enough. Your body will be pumping adrenaline and other stress hormones and you will go literally crazy with alzheimer or something like that.. This is the case mainly for woman, because estrogen will retain and increase copper in the body.. But due to all kinds of estrogen like chemicals around us and because almost everyone is deficient in things like molybdenum, chromium, zinc it is very easy for copper to build up in the body.. I would be very careful with eating or taking more copper. In my case following "root protocol" from Morley Robbins was almost suicide.. The biggest issue with copper like I said is that the more copper overload you have. The less ceruloplasmin can the body make... You can read more here coppertoxic.com  I think that is the website from this guy https://www.youtube.com/user/fwivideo/videos  When I read on that web. It is like I am reading about myself... THere is a video what I was saying.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYmF4Tof_CY

@jiri

Should mushrooms and potatoes be limited due to high copper?

@tim-2 They are moderate or potatoes low in copper. Like 200mcg for 100g. So if you don't eat 2kg of potatoes and 1kg of mushrooms a day. It is ok. Nuts, seeds, pseudograins, cocoa etc.. are much higher and vegans for example can eat crazy amounts. I think that is also part of the reason why they are so crazy. The body can't handle so much copper overtime especially when is running low on amino acids, zinc, taurine...

@jiri the low B12 doesn’t help the vegans either, but that is a good point—I would expect the cooked starch-based vegans do better than the raw food vegans partly for that reason (the excess nuts and cocoa), and partly because they eat more carotenes, too.

I’m glad you’re feeling calmer with the mineral supplements! Do you think the concept of “copper dumping” or whatever is a thing that typically happens if you’re copper toxic when you take over a certain threshold of zinc? I worked up to 45 mg of zinc, and I’m feeling way better on it also.

@jiri

Ok fair enough. If someone is including legumes, mushrooms, whole grains, potatoes and a small quantity of nuts in their diet the copper quickly adds up. I'm in favour of including all these foods but not making staples of them.

@puddleduck  I would be careful taking more than 20-30mg of zinc. I was also taking a lot of zinc alone, but it can create another imbalances.. You need to take it with some manganese as well..  I really recommend hair tissue mineral analysis so you don't take something blindly.. Without testing I wouldn't take more than 30mg.. "copper dump" happens when you take copper antagonists like zinc and other trace minerals or when you stimulate your adrenals. It is not ideal scenario. Because this will just dump copper in the blood where it is causing oxidative stress.. Ideally copper dump should happen spontaneously when the body is ready to eliminate some extra copper from the body. That means when the bile flow is good, ceruloplasmin production is good etc.. That's why it is not recommended to push the body with exercise, taking high doses of zinc, vit C etc.. Ideal scenario for copper detox is diet low in copper, zero stimulants, no caffeine, smoking, simple sugar etc.. Eat only complex slow digesting carbs and a lot of protein from animal foods. This will calm the body tremendously. So you feel tired. Your mind is not racing. So you can finally rest, sleep a lot and heal the adrenals and once adrenals will be in good shape the liver will start dumping copper.. But most people with kids, jobs etc.. They are GOGOGO 24/7 which means more caffeine, more simple sugars, more chocolate, nuts etc.. Until the body will say stop with cancer, stroke or some chronic fatigue etc..  

Oh yeah @jiri, don’t worry. Sorry I should’ve said I’ve had a hair mineral analysis done as well as a blood test for zinc, so I am only taking the 45 mg because I am under Dr. Smith’s supervision. I will get re-tested and back off when appropriate. 👍

Interesting about the manganese, thank you. According to chronometer I’m getting well over 500% of the RDA for manganese in my diet—you think that’s enough, or is the RDA unhelpful? I think my manganese levels were in range on the hair test. 

Your description of the different states of copper dumping is super interesting, and makes sense. I will watch for being too hyped on zinc. So far, I’m still feeling calm. Sounds kind of like I may have done a lot of adrenal healing back in my eating disorder recovery days already, since I haven’t dealt with racing or intrusive thoughts since that time. Maybe part of that healing was a spontaneous copper dump. 

Thanks again for the info, Jiri!

@puddleduck with trace minerals it is tricky. Because there is thin line between deficiency, ideal intake and toxicity.. I don't know how much you absorb from the diet you eat, but I do good on 3:1 ratio zinc to manganese so I take 30mg of zinc and 10mg of manganese. I think in my case zinc alone lowers sodium. So taking zinc alone I was crazy dehydrated, couldn't sweat etc.. Manganese increases somewhat sodium so they balance each other for me.. But it is just for now when I think I have issues with copper. For sure I will not take zinc, manganese etc.. 5 years latter.. Once everything will be balanced it is good idea to drop everything and just eat balanced diet and take something again only if hair tests/blood tests show that there is need for some corrections.. The worst thing healthy people can do is to take some vitamins, minerals to be even more healthier.. 🙂

@jiri Hmm yeah... And manganese can be neurotoxic, so I maybe want to be careful with it. Although, not having enough is bad for the bones and teeth so... I don’t know, but it is interesting about the effect zinc has on your sodium. I will pay attention for that.

Ha, yeah, I look forward to being able to drop the supplements as soon as possible. Thanks, Jiri! 🙂