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@jean-2 Why did I stop? It was a one time thing, I never intended to keep going.

I did it like 20 years ago. I was friends with an alternative health nut who had me try it for some reason I cannot remember. He had me try a lot of weird shit. I don't remember getting any benefit from it, and it was kind of gross so nothing I'd like to do again unless forced to. I have had my share of pre-surgery fasting and laxating and that is about just as pleasant 🤣.

I ended up getting the endo package with Karens modifications because that is what she recommended. I have contacted her/her team several times since and I always get a reply within 48 hours. 

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One month since last update.

As stated many times before, I have since long exhausted all willpower to stick to a strict diet. A lifetime of OCD, obsession, body dysmorphia, PTSD, and an obsession with perfectionism, now that I am free I cannot force myself anymore, I fail every time. Karen literally told me, stick to the plan, and you will be healthy within 9 months to 2 years. But I cannot do it. God help me.

I was excited about my beans. Then the dairy craving came back. And I have learned not to ignore that, so I once again added dairy back on the menu. Yoghurt first. Then cheese and now (full fat) milk. The yoghurt craving stopped after 3-4 days. 

Result: MASSIVE oxalate dump. I felt like hell. Headache, dizzy, brain block, exhaustion, super sensitive with crying spells, dark moods and hopelesness, kidney pain, back pain, and cloudy urine. I barely managed my job, rest of the time spent in bed or sofa.

When the calcium started binding to the ox in my beans, it must (possibly, probably, theoretically) have created an "empty" environment allowing a dump from tissues to take place.

Poops were excellent though. But orange, smelly and sticky. I never ever experienced this when I had my last dairy splurge (without psyllium), that just made me constipated pooping white coated rabbit turds. Dairy + psyllium though...🤯 (it was most likely not a result of the added fat, as I ate a lot of Olive oil before but stopped when added dairy back)

It made me realize how huge the oxalate issue must be in my case, which I already knew, but again forgot about, or bagatellized.. I will therefore make Ox my main priority, Karen Hurd strict protocol will have to wait. I will stick with my goo, pay greater attention to ox, and add dairy when I have ox in my diet. Keep eating my eggs and keep on living somewhat like a normal human being.

The dump lastede about 1,5-2 weeks. I am fine now, feeling great again, possibly a bit better. Still planning on having the mirena coil removed because it will probably help a lot not dealing with the extra hormones from it. But I am a bit afraid to go for a checkup. I rather remain ignorant about the status of endo and kidney for a while longer. I just cannot take that extra stress right now.

I am still grateful for Grant and the theory of A. I probably have a lot in storage still, but I haven't had any acute reactions to A in foods for a very long time now. I stay below RDI but don't sweat it.


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JennypuddleduckNavnAndrew B

@liz The eggs do provoke a strong detox and the beans too probably really ramp it up. It occurred to me that the eggs helping the cell membranes might result in a stronger oxalate dump as toxins get removed better. What do you think @jaj ?

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I was told that ‘phosphatidylcholine can displace lipid soluble toxins from cell membranes’ this can cause an increase in circulating toxicity. I don’t know if this would be the case for oxalates but it’s possible. I’ll have a look and see if I can see anything to suggest this. 

Edit: A read of the Trying Low Oxalate FB page suggests that several people experience an oxalate dump when taking phosphatidylcholine supplements/eggs. No one seems to know why, from the comments I’ve read. However, it suggests that it’s a possibility. I need to add to my list! 

Edit 2: A reaction to PC probably suggests a large requirement rather than needing to avoid imo. Need to introduce slowly though. 

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puddleduckRachelNavnAndrew B

@jaj I think also oxalates would tend to be in the kidneys and the kidneys are very high in choline normally.

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Yay for being able to READ BOOKS again!! 📚🤓 And seeing shifts in anxiety (and autism) levels for the better is huuuuge, @liz. 😃 It makes me so happy to hear of your progress.

I find your oxalate dumping stories absolutely astounding. When @bella was experiencing similarly intense symptoms from dumping them, I felt the same way about her reports. Crystals coming out of the eyes? “Sand” in the toilet? WHAT?! So wild. It is incredible how much toxin the human body can store and what it can do to release it!  🤯 

And also it is unpleasant, obviously. I’m glad you’ve figured out what a significant issue they are for you, but you really do go through it badly when dumping them. 😓

“As stated many times before, I have since long exhausted all willpower to stick to a strict diet. A lifetime of OCD, obsession, body dysmorphia, PTSD, and an obsession with perfectionism, now that I am free I cannot force myself anymore, I fail every time.”

I relate! And I find it inspiring that trusting your dairy cravings has helped you with the oxalates.

“I land off ox foods for a while but for some reason forgot all about it, went whole grain and bean full retard and then nuts and dark chocolate for some reason.”

Lol! 🤣 I did this, too, at one point (probably after I attempted going low-fat)... Maybe the chocolate and nut part was because I needed more fatty acids. 🙃

But I relate to what you have said about realizing that something is helpful, only to later forget about it for whatever reason...It is difficult to “juggle all the balls” of different strategies at once; I find it easier to focus on just one, sometimes to my detriment.

Anyway, I wanted to tell you I greatly appreciate your observations, and the detailed summary of Karen Hurd’s work (another helpful approach I have tended to “drop the ball” on), and have read your update posts several times.

Thank you for posting them, Liz! I hope you are doing well, and that the stress and symptoms of the oxalate dumps become less severe over time. (I am hoping for an endo miracle, too, of course.)

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LizNavnPJAndrew BDonald

Thank you @puddleduck yea it is pretty crazy what the body can withstand. I am still amazed.. I keep improving. Found myself driving a new way to a constructuon site the other day instead of the highway, and another way back. For the fun of it. That NEVER EVER would have happened before because A) driving stressed me out and B) new things were scary and unthinkable to do alone.

I have found a good balance between dairy and oxalate. Too much of either and I get horrible dump symptoms or intox symptoms. Karen Hurd say oxalate is not a problem (as in a main problem to focus on, as it will resolve itself), so I drink my goo, and have began with low ox beans again and it is going well. Other than that, my diet is pretty relaxed. I am crazy hungry most days, and have put on a few pounds mainly because I eat like a horse and I don't exercise anymore to keep calorie balance, but I am still like BMI 20-21 so I don't care much. It will come off when I can exercise again.

Oh. And my bff who has his own issues and struggle with on/off depression and low motivation has been so impressed with my change about the car/driving thing that he bought himself husk yesterday and filled up his cabinet with beans. I am trying to fill him up with some eggs as well but he refuses to buy them ever since they found out in my country that 80% of all chickens (organic + conventional) have a broken sternum due to laying larger eggs than their bodies can handle. And then the PFAS egg scandal came (high levels of PFAS in all organic eggs) but I have found a great producer with neither so hopefully he will come around 😊

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puddleduckNavnHermesPJAndrew BDonaldConcernedRetinoid

Interesting observation - note to self:

When I get kidney pain at night I find that sodium bicarbonate helps a lot.

For a few nights I have had escalating back pain (bone,  not soft tissue) something I suffered from for years. I woke up at 4am, the pain was unbearable. I took a glass of water with bicarbonate and within minutes the pain subsided and I fell back asleep.

I woke up 2 hours later with a (one sided) stuffy nose, lots of crust around the eyes and very very tired. Same symptoms I used to get from dairy.

Bicarbonate is a strong base. The back pain is probably oxalate related, which is an acid. I have mentioned previously back pain went away when I quit high ox foods. I have also had a lot of old injuries acting up för a few days to a week just to go away again.

What is interesting to me is what I thought was milk intolerance, might not have been after all, as milk is a weak base, it might have been an "antidote" before I knew it, as I was dairy free for many years and only had it very occationally and stopped again due to the stuffed nose thing believing it must be bad for me.

However, I do not uderstand the mechanism behing the stuffy nose and eye crust and how bicarbonate can create such a reaction. Sally Norton would brobably say it's oxalate related. But then again, she think everything is. 

The stuffy nose goes away as soon as I go vertical.

Also: nails are whiter. They have always been transparent and weak and soft. Now they are white and a lot harder. 😍

Edit: forgot to add, I also sweat less and it is almost odorless now. Kinda freaky...

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puddleduckAudreyAndrew BDonald


Reminds me of this article I read a while back. Maybe it has something to do with this?

Summary: A daily dose of baking soda may help reduce the destructive inflammation of autoimmune diseases like rheumatoid arthritis, scientists say. They have some of the first evidence of how the cheap, over-the-counter antacid can encourage our spleen to promote instead an anti-inflammatory environment that could be therapeutic in the face of inflammatory disease, scientists report.

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Be careful how you go about taking baking soda.  It can really goof you up.  I'd much rather have it as part of a muffin or something 🙂

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Andrew B
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