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New protocol to fix iron/copper toxicity
@whatisaging Just donated blood to my toilet about 320ml(I wanted full donation 450-500ml, but the blood stopped flowing after like 15 minutes. I think the needle gets clogged in the vein. I use 18G for donation they use 16G which is really thick needle that does a lot of damage to the tissues) which should be around 160mg of iron. This will lower liver iron easily. But it looks like the body is not able to pull iron from other tissues if it is deposited there.. So you guys think that EGCG can do that? How long is half life of EGCG? I would be afraid of redistribution of that iron causing even more oxidative damage in the process.. The suck part about iron is that a lot of people say you can have normal ferritin, but iron overload. Like with copper low serum copper and ceruloplasmin.. I will test this by lowering ferritin to very low numbers wit no red meat/organ meat diet and bloodletting and see if my red blood cells will go down a lot. If not and my ferritin will be like under 10. I think that should be ideal heh.. Hopefully with this ceruloplasmin and bioavailable copper will get high as well.. Btw the guy Jacob or what is his name the creator of HG7 is talking about free copper, but he names it in his posts as bioavailable copper when he talks about how you take EGCG and that frees copper that has to be bound with molybdenum. But that copper is free not bioavailable. Bioavailable copper is copper bound to ceruloplasmin and that is good copper. That is what we don't want chelate from the body.. We want only lower free copper.. Nutritional balancing call rise in of free copper copper dump. I don't know if this copper dump is happening while taking EGCG. It would be great if you tried blood test after taking nothing but some EGCG what is going on in the blood..
The half-life of EGCG is around 4 days. I think EGCG takes iron to the liver for excretion in the bile. There could be redistribution of iron within the liver itself. It might depend on how fast the iron is excreted from the liver.
Assessing the amount of iron deposits in the body seems unclear without organ biopsies, yes. I'm curious about doing an oligoscan on the dark circles under my eyes, since iron deposits are one cause of those, and mine have gone down on the protocol. If the scan shows elevated iron, that can be an interesting indicator.
Yeah, that's an interesting blood test experiment on free copper. The only issue is the nausea from taking EGCG alone on an empty stomach...
Looked into oligoscan: "To not have validation data after all this time is a massive red flag"
I am similar of similar opinion to Jiří on HG7. It just doesn't meet my safety profile needs quite enough. I would do it if I were more desperate, but I'm basically at an early stage where I'm getting minor problems that I'm trying to address early, and I still have a lot of good health to lose. I tried the main dose and reacted badly. I have to make it safer.
I don't like Heisenberg's approach of large doses so that calibration symptoms are clearer. It makes sense, but it bumps up the risks. I also don't like the way it can't combine with anything else to make it safer. Again, that makes sense, and I'd still always want the protocol available for people, because it still seems strong and clear. I love Heisenberg's clarity, but it means there's no way to improve the safety profile. In general, everyone is different and that means changing one variable at a time. That might mean taking some elements separately. I believe Heisenberg is too much the expert, so it's hard for him to see. He doesn't have a process to allow for people having to make mistakes to learn HG7. Megadoses and clean up after? It's a leap of faith.
There are masses of red flags around the protocol, but I don't want to talk about those because at the end of the day, they are circumstantial. Heisenberg has made far more statements that have come accurate than those that haven't. He's very knowledgable on intuition. Thus, I wonder what I can pull out of the protocol, despite Heisenberg's insistence that everything has to stay together.
First, biotin is clearly useful in of itself. I can stop muscle cramps with this. Great!
Second, just the concept of lowering iron is useful. Could this process be separated off and mastered in a more manageable way, safely?
Thirdly, tasting is useful. I can taste vitamin C and dose with that as a guide.
Can we take elements from Garrett Smith to do a less extreme detox?
1) More conservatively less zinc, less Molybdenum.
2) Replace stomach and gut wrecking EGCG with lactoferrin, IP6 or Apolactoferrin. But how much?
3) Selenium instead of B6. Seems safer. But how much?
4) Maybe NMN/Creatine/Niacin for energy instead of B5.
5) However, still take just the low RDA for B5 and B6, doing so with a taste test as well. Hedging bets.
6) Then also take vitamin C, but the natural form from cherry or food, and in an amount that is plausible to eat. Monitor ceruloplasmin over multiple tests, bearing in mind that values change due to subclinical infection etc.
7) Just take biotin based on muscle cramps and other biotin symptoms only.
8) Aim for 1G of calcium/day (tofu, not calcium!?) and as much potassium from vegetables as possible.
9) Histidine?! B1, B2, folinic acid, or B12, magnesium, taurine?
Does this sound like a plan?
Heisenberg talks like he sits left seat in this craft.
BOEING 747 "GO AROUND, GO AROUND" At 200 feet, .. Houston Airport.(A/C on the runway)
Would not trust him with this craft.
Vintage Irish Mail JET RACER Pedal Style Car FOR SALE
I grok how we feel we need to supplement to overcome problems as we withdraw from vA addiction. Have done my share. My goal since starting 1/2023 has been to cut my supplement intake. In January, 2023 I cut my intake over 90%. Did it again over following 32 months. Working to continue that trend and tail it off to naught. Will welcome my variations on prison / cowboy diet as I do. Life keeps getting better.
Feels like most in low vA culture are going the opposite direction. Zeolite, niacin, all the other micro and macro minerals, other amino acids,........ These symptom chasing routes in the maze are how most of us got here. Most of us were trying to improve on the horrific results of the standard American diet. What I suspected all along is what I have seen confirmation of uniformly these last 32 months. Less is more. Kaizen works.
Heisenberg is using this
(27806) NPK PH3 Skid Steer Mounted Hammer - Sidewalk Repairs - YouTube
to do the job of this
Most of the time, I question if we need to use a hammer at all. Well chosen, placed and timed food (and avoidance) have worked well in a growing number of cases. Is anyone on here getting better results than Grant?
Does anyone know what are the dosages from the Grant Smith protocol?
@a HG7 is just extreme protocol for slow oxidizers who are extremely toxic in copper and even for people who fit into this category there is a lot of issues with it.
I would simply do hair test in ARL or TEI and follow their report and recommended suppls or consult that with good practitioner who can look at more data for your individual case like blood work, diet history, life style and mix it all together.. GH7 doesn't come even close to HTMA.. I really don't care that the autor himself is doing great so far 3-4 years in. For most pople taking only 6 essential nutrients in mega doses will create some serious imbalance over time and I can't even imagine how long it will take to reverse something like 5 years of megadosing couple of vitamins, minerals.
Lowering iron while you don't have issues with low red blood cells etc. is a good longevity approach, but I am not sure if EGCG is ideal. We hardly know what it does in the body. Why some people end up with liver failure etc.. I haven't found any evidence that it chelates iron from the body. We only know for sure that it lowers absorption from the gut, but once it is in the blood we don't know what it does with the iron..
I think blocking absorption during the digestion when you eat red meat and just looking at feritin levels and donating blood to keep it around 50 lets say is probably much safer option. You don't have to worry about some unknown effect of some plant extracts..
I don't like plant supplements in general. Whole food vit C is ok, but all those herbs, extracts where there is 1000 or more chemical in one capsules. There is so many variables.. You take it for one positive effect, but it can have another 10 negative effects that you will learn 10 years down the road..
I would stay away from Dr.Smith. I would put him in the same category as HG7 protocol. Also protocol that is good basically for slow oxidizers toxic in copper. It will work for a lot of people, but some could end up realyl bad on it. But in general everyone who knows something about nutrition with some basic biochemistry he has to just roll his yes listening his ridiculous rants on toxic bile dumps etc.. 80% of what he says makes no sense..
I think doing HTMA in ARL/TEI, basic blood work and not taking anything in high unnatural doses. Making sure your body has everything(all micronutrients not just 5-6) in good, but safe amounts(HTMA will show you what ratios of minerals/vitamins etc you should take if you need to speed up or slow down etc..)
With that you cover also chelation of toxic metals as you are constantly replacing them with essential minerals..
This is all important stuff for longevity.. That HG7 guy thinks that he can just take his protocol and smoke and eat just for the rest of his life and be healthy 90yo?
I think that is crazy naive and that he will hit the wall at some point. Wonder what will be his reaction on that... He is still young kid. 10 years down the road it will be different story..
Quote from Jiří on August 12, 2025, 5:02 am@a HG7 is just extreme protocol for slow oxidizers who are extremely toxic in copper and even for people who fit into this category there is a lot of issues with it.
Thanks for getting back to me Jiří! Happy to see you here and I appreciate this input very much. I'm very much in line with your approach, playing it safe.
I don't have access to ARL/TEI here in Asia. I have the hair test data, but I don't think they allow interpretation only? My profile allows a bit of manganese and zinc improvement; everything else is complex, but pointing to iron and copper dysregulation. I'm glad I only have mild symptoms. I'm glad I've got on this early.
I agree about EGCG, even though I'm a slow oxidiser, and even though it does seem to reduce my hair falling and aching joints. It seems harsh. Lactoferrin seems milder on paper. Apo-lactoferrin is in breast milk, so that seems more conservative yet. This could be taken as a maintenance dose to keep iron in check?
Here's another thing I read about: Histidine. It sounds like a much more natural approach for copper; binding more selectively, but not really forcing.
Could a simple combo of establishing ~50 iron first, and then slowly increasing a bit of histidine be a much simpler approach? This has got so less moving parts. But I don't know the numbers for this. Nutrition detective suggests 1/64 tsp of lactoferrin, but that is a mix of lactoferrin types.
I'd still keep the B vitamins at RDA levels, but with biotin a bit higher, depending on cramps and twitches, increase manganese as well, along with maybe 30mg zinc daily. I'd like to see what a proper ARL/TEI report would say rather than using AI and the mineral balancing book PDF.
As an aside for everyone that should be in a sticky thread: NEVER just upload a hair report PDF and expect the AI to read it properly; it screwed it up for me every time. The data has to be typed in manually.
You can't send hair sample to USA? I can from Czech Republic.. So you did hair test in some local laboratory?
I tried apo lactoferrin. While taking it I had insane anemia symptoms without reduction in feritin. I think it binds to the iron and the body can't use it. But I don't think apolactoferin can somehow eliminate iron from the body.. Good old bleeding is best for it..
But hard to tell you should do blood test for iron panel at least feritin and ideally for copper serum copper + ceruloplasmin. Serum zinc is helpful as well. But it has to be tested at the same time to see if you have all that copper bound to ceruloplasmin or free.. If you have high free copper taking some histidine is good for binding that free copper.. But blindly antagonize copper it can create problems.. It is a good idea to up the trace elements like chromium, molybdenum, iodine, selenium.. Most people are low in them.. Also silica etc.. Nutritional balancing is not directly focused on just copper. Unless you have exposure to toxic amount of copper it is not about copper. It is about imbalanced body and the copper imbalance is just result of that and when you balance the body(all elements not just zonc/copper) copper metabolism should work again..
@joe2 ideal is to not take any single, synthetic supplements for sure.. If someone is in good health he never should start with supplements. Just making sure that he is eating wide range of all kinds of foods to prevent any imbalance.. The problem is when you create huge imbalance by taking unnatural stuff like all kinds of drugs, meds, hormones, huge doses of synthetic vitamins, minerals etc.. That is hard to fix by just food.. Because most likely you created some crazy deficiencies of other stuff that can't be replenished just with food sources..
It all boils down to if you test and you know what are you doing. Why are you taking stuff. For example you are doing hair testing and you know you run low on stuff like chromium, molybdenum, selenium or whatever it makes sense to take some. It is hard to get from foods. When you have no idea how much or if any is there.. SO I would rather take pill that I know has for example 200mcg of selenium than just eating brasil nuts and hoping that there is some. There could be hardly any or vise versa toxic amounts..
So it depends.. But if someone is ok and wants to just take vitamins and minerals just because without any testing or any idea if he is low or what in something I would never recommend that.. I would recommend spending that money on high quality food.. Where it is much harder to create any imbalance if you like I said rotate foods and don't eat one food in insane amounts all the time..