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New protocol to fix iron/copper toxicity
@a be careful with zinc so you don't end up with low copper.. Even 20-30mg a day can do that after long term use in some people.. Zinc can lower also other stuff like manganese.. If you eat beef/sea food I don't see the need to supplement zinc..
YOu fainted due to fear of needles/blood or low blood pressure? If the second one make sure you you are hydrated. Water with sea salt to rise blood pressure before you donate.. Maybe you don't even need to donate.. But in general it is good idea to do it 1-2 a year for most guys.. Or older females as well..
@itsme
"This discussion makes me think of an interview with a famous illusionist I saw years ago.
He said that the audience who was the easiest to trick are highly educated people (such as doctors), while the audience that's the toughest to trick are children.
The highly educated are usually all mind-driven (thinking) and 'rigid' (thinking they have all the wisdom and answers), while children are more instinctual,curious and not 'locked up' in their minds."
Spot on accurate. Much easier to distract a mind when you already know their cues and where and what they want to look at. Japanese call it mushin. Zero mind or open mind. Illusionists are routinely expert at body language - both reading and writing it.
@itsme the thing is I am not talking about those people you describe. I am talking about normal people who were simply just forced to learn some facts/basics of human biochemistry because they need to fix their health. I know what type of people you are talking about. Educated people with high social status who have big ego and think that they know it all. That they have all the answers. Doctors are often like that. Those people will learn hard way when they end up with health issues realizing that modern medical system is a scam..
So again just because you learn from biochemistry book some facts that could help you in your journey doesn't mean that you are not free thinker who person who just don't question anything. Or are you or others here trying to say that biochemistry science as we know it is not right or what is the deal here?
I would rather try to learn biochemistry basics than listening some guru with his agenda on youtube any day of the week.
7 older siblings all with advanced degrees. I took zero degrees. I also read and have read for decades. Typically 6 hours a day non-fiction. Still those siblings have zero tolerance for concept that someone with zero degrees can be better read on any topic than they are - especially THEIR topic. Amazing some of the stupid legal tactics the attorney has tried on me. Stymied when confronted with appropriate counter. Same with the MD.
One of them asked for context once after 3rd Christmas in a row where I sent her 12 books. After a few years, she read one and was amazed. The book was genius and she needed it. She loved it. Had zero clue how I knew. Also complained I sent too many books. She felt it unfair to expect her to read any of them. Context I gave her is that I sent less than 2% of the books I read. I sent her the books that made me think of her.
She still had hard time contextualizing. I knew she read and was proud of it. Mostly fiction. Asked how many books a year. 12 or so. Asked her out of 100 books, how many life changing amazing books had she read. She said 3 maybe 4. Told her now what if you were reading a book a week? How many books then? What if you read a book a day? How many amazing life changing books a year will you find? Especially when you read all non-fiction?
Even with all this context these siblings after 3 decades still struggle to grasp that there are more knowledgeable sources out there than their indoctrinated experts. Have seen it in martial training. Almost every school or gym has a guy who just wants to train. He is just a seriuos amateur. Wants to improve. Every few months sometimes years, a dojo will bring in one of the best on the planet to teach a seminar. Amazing to watch that serious amateur get a few minutes with the pro. Good pros are already humble and get grateful when shown something they did not know is possible. The serious amateur still gets a good lesson too. Wild ride to even get to watch the working exchange. Scary good stuff.
Most of our laptop class of experts are not this humble. Even outside their own lanes. They are convinced they are some kind of deity of learning. No clue that their plumber can get on stage with ZZ Top and play Billy Gibbons ragged on his own riffs.
It is absolutely about experience and the grind of learning on ourselves. It is also about fact that genius is all around us all the time and usually unrecognized.
Let me know when you want clues to make donation easier. Big part of phlebotomist's job is to keep the donor awake and happy before, during and long after the process.
Less than willing to eat seafood here. Hope you avoid the farm raised fish, fatty fish, filter fish and bottom feeders. Even then it all seems suspect.
I know a billionaire who leased electrics. When he saw the experiments we did buying and building hybrids, I asked why he did not throw away a few bills on it. He said no way he would throw good money after bad technology. He said he was waiting to see battery and computer systems needed to run it play out. Even so he admitted manufacturers were not stupid. Their lease prices were so high, they covered their own costs so both the buyer and the renter pay all the costs.
To all:
Have taken 30mg zinc along with selenium, molybdenum, magnesium for 30 months. Less sure today how much copper and manganese are essential. Even if they are less sure how easily they can become deficient. Even so, even if Grant could have improved faster taking zinc supplements, one might do better to consider what the goal is here. Do I want to do better all my life by supplementing? Or do I want to live life well with zero need to supplement getting all I need and repairing well with good food? More and more I look at every one in the low vA world including Garrett Smith and I ask who is the individual with the best health and cognitive and physical performance short, medium and long term? What and how much did they do to get those results?
Better phrased who did the least and got the best results in the low vA paradigm? Asked that question for the last 6 months and still only come up with one answer. Funny to hear people argue that Grant could do better if he only tried ..................... or Grant's health is really not very good, he looks.................. Yeh whatever. What are we going to have to do, low vA Olympics?
@whatisaging it's a shame that you didn't test serum copper and ceruloplasmin and zinc ideally as well.. Interesting that your ferritin went up like that.I would donate blood and you don't have to worry about toxic effect of EGCG on the liver..
Quote from Jiří on August 15, 2025, 8:22 am@a be careful with zinc so you don't end up with low copper.. Even 20-30mg a day can do that after long term use in some people.. Zinc can lower also other stuff like manganese.. If you eat beef/sea food I don't see the need to supplement zinc..
YOu fainted due to fear of needles/blood or low blood pressure? If the second one make sure you you are hydrated. Water with sea salt to rise blood pressure before you donate.. Maybe you don't even need to donate.. But in general it is good idea to do it 1-2 a year for most guys.. Or older females as well..
No clue why I fainted. Had no trouble with the needle going in. Seemed to happen with the feeling of the blood going out.
I'm getting a testosterone boost from supplementing zinc and biotin, though I don't have a baseline to confirm. I better do another hair test later to make sure it's OK though.
Quote from Jiří on August 17, 2025, 4:33 am@whatisaging it's a shame that you didn't test serum copper and ceruloplasmin and zinc ideally as well.. Interesting that your ferritin went up like that.I would donate blood and you don't have to worry about toxic effect of EGCG on the liver..
I've tested these before and found they showed normal readings. My hair test readings showed sky high copper. So I decided to save my money and get another hair test.
I do think that if you get the HG7 ratios wrong for too long, like I do sometimes when I calibrate, then the liver can be damaged. I've been able to course correct each time though, so I'm still OK with continuing. I have a lot of reasons for taking these risks. I'll just focus on EGCG, since the benefits of the full protocol are too numerous to list here.
The theoretical benefits of EGCG go beyond just lowering iron. EGCG can also remove toxic metals like aluminum, which can compromise iron metabolism and lead to iron accumulation. They are a candidate for the root cause for everyone's iron issues. Blood donation doesn't address these metals.
There's even more, such as pushing copper and toxins out of the liver, and stem cell and telomere restoration. If EGCG can be taken in large doses without harm, then it would be an anti-aging compound.
Blood donation has issues too. It removes bioavailable iron, and you're trusting that the body can mobilize deeper stored iron. Post #80 in this thread shows an example where donating blood causes anemia while not solving iron overload, since the body is not able to mobilize deeper iron stores like hemosiderin, which is known to be stubborn to iron reduction. Lipofuscin is the aging pigment that causes liver spots: it also contains iron and is hard to remove. I've already mentioned that toxic metals can compromise this mobilization as well, which donation does little for.
@whatisaging well donating blood will lower iron from ferritin. At least that is happening right.. I agree that it is not optimal, but better than doing nothing and just keep accumulating more and more in the body.. As soon as my bile flow improves I will try that just in "scared kid" doses heh.. Will be interesting to see your new hair test..
In case you didn't see it, I noticed a possible dietary approach to HG7. Basically, if you supplement 5-10mg of biotin, and drink 30-60 mL of green tea, then you can get the other 5 nutrients from foods at the correct ratios. The molybdenum can come from black eyed peas, for example.
This gives a 0.5% - 1% dose of HG7 per meal. So it's a lot slower, but over 3 months, you might see some improvements, since I noticed things after just 2 days of the half-dose of HG7.
Ideally, the foods should be lower in iron and copper, and possibly vitamin A, so that the HG7 portion isn't nullified. But you might be able to drink more green tea and eat more black eyed peas, to compensate, as well as increase the vitamin C source.
@whatisaging interesting, but I think food is not the same as synthetic vitamins/minerals. HG7 build from foods would be much safer for sure, but the effect would be over decade not months hehe.. In my case I still don't know 100% what is my copper status. I saw copper dump on blood test. Not on hair test. So I don't know. Some people say don't detox copper if you don't have high copper in hair. Some people say you that for some people it can take even years on nutritional balancing program before they even start to see copper dumps on hair tests.. I know for sure that I feel like shit taking zinc because my adrenals are tanked(low Na/K ratio on hair test) and zinc lowers sodium even more.. Practitioners in that case give zinc, but smaller dose and with copper.. To increase adrenals, ceruloplasmin again.. So I really don't know what to do lol.. This copper thing is just crazy man... THe only stuff that could tell for sure what the hell is going on with copper status is liver biopsy.. That sucks..
I later tried a 6% dose from supplements and still felt some relief within minutes, so I think for some people, a 1% dose from foods has a chance of helping some symptoms relatively quickly, possibly over a week.
Neither supplements nor foods are absorbed completely, the blood doesn't have enough room.