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New protocol to fix iron/copper toxicity
Have seen some crazy claims out of Paola the Ozone lady. For a long time she claimed lil g's sunfiber was full of lead. Funny because it made him get it tested. Still she rattled on about it like she had proof. She provided zero evidence and persisted.
@whatisaging @orion I have new hair test. The results from previous test was 8 years ago. Funny how it is similar. I should follow their program.. It seems I am stuck at one place..
The previous test was with ARL report. They recommended basically something like 80mg zinc, 22mg manganese, 2mg copper, 600mcg chromium, 300mcg selenium, 700mg calcium, 450mg magnesium, B vitamins etc..
The new test was with practitioner that uses Valence supplements and what he recommends has like 54mg zinc, no copper, around 5mg manganese and other stuff like B vitamins etc.. No molybdenum as ARL. For some reason they don't use molybdenum at all..
So what do you think? Interesting thing when I did the first test with ARL year before that second ARL test(and third is this new one) I had the same hair test as the second basically only big change was that the first test I had sodium in ideal range. On second test sodium dropped to 4.o. I stopped taking thyroid meds maybe that's why.. Anyways and the only change in recommended suppls ARL did was rising manganese from 12 to 22mg.. So they use just manganese rise sodium..
I wonder what should I do. I don't like much ARL or that practitioner protocol 80mg of zinc and 2mg of copper, 22mg manganese or 55mg zinc, 5mg manganese no copper..
My Na/K ratio is 3.0 now so little higher ideal is 2.5. But I think that if I will take just shit load of zinc with basically nothing that rises sodium I will lower that Na/K ratio very fast and I will felel like shit.. Which I did in spring basically zinc, molybdenum, no manganese no high copper foods and I felt like death. Crazy low sodium so dehydrated, low blood pressure, anemic like.. For now I do decent amount of copper foods mushrooms, buckwkeat etc. to get around 3mg of copper from food and I take 50mg of zinc, 10mg manganese and 400mcg molybdenum. Don't know if it's good. But with that manganese and copper foods it ism ore balanced for sure. I retain more water and can function.. But don't know if it's ideal..
Always thinking what is better lower copper intake and copper antagonists zinc, manganese, molybdenum as well or take more copper and more zinc, manganese, molybdenum as well..
ARL recommends taking chromium, manganese for sure if it's low on a hair test. That practitioner says low manganese can be toxicity like with copper don't know who is right..
You probably say do hg7 protocol right. 😀 I can't do protocol like this. I easily crash from making big imbalance. SO I would crash all the time with wrong doses and I have to function work manual labor jobs..
Have the second picture in next comment. For some reason I can't post them both in one comment
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@itsme Just everyone has different approach. Some assume you have copper toxicity so they don't give you any copper. Some play it safe or don't care about if you have copper toxicity, but they want just rise sodium/potassium ratio if it's low. Which is very important ratio and to rise it you do it with copper, manganese...
Anyways to your point I don't know if the body is able to absorb any copper from that 2mg if you take dose like 80mg of zinc.. Because that much zinc increases metallothionein in the intestine a lot that binds to copper so you can't absorb much of that copper you take anyways..
So hard to balance everything to perfect amount for your specific scenario in specific time. The body is changing constantly and it is hard to test for it all the time.
For that I really like to learn from HG7 protocol guys to know the symptoms of what is low or to high..
It's just hard to tell. So many variables outside of what you eat from food or supplements..
I mean recommended supplements is one thing. But there can be still huge difference in overal mineral content of different diets..
I mean you can eat chicken breast, eggs for protein or you can eat beef for protein. Huge difference in zinc/iron content. You can eat white rice for carbs or you can eat buckwheat as carb source. Again huge difference in copper intake. For fats they say tallow, olive oil etc. are ok, but also nuts and seeds. Again huge difference if you get your fats from couple tbps of oil/tallow or 100g of cashews. Crazy difference in mineral content..
@orion @whatisaging What is your diet on HG7 protocol guys?
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@itsme Yeah we need to be smart about it. We can learn from stuff people are doing, but it's not a best idea to jump on stuff and hope it will work that's for sure.
For dextrose I use it in water if I do physical stuff like exercise or in work. Just water is not ideal for hydration and I don't want all that fructose from sugar. So I use some dextrose with some salt. It seems to be good for hydration. When they give you IV to the vein when you pass out or something to hydrate you they use dextrose with sodium as well..
@jiri I am still doing low VA eating, 7yrs in Nov, but much more relaxed I guess, mainly just avoid excess dairy. Still doing HG7 and will give it 1yr, like most experiments attempted in the past. I think I will do a hairtest at 1yr and compare back to my several tests I did before lowVA and HG7.
Everyone tests so differently from each other and sometimes from past tests, it feels impossible to interpret usefully.
Then there is the differences in how test are interpreted. Even within a group of 5 practitioners who studied from the same teacher, their disagreements are wild.
What symptoms are you going after? What results do you expect from the changes you are going to make?
As to copper, given how much copper we get from our environment whether we want it or not, why would someone supplement it?
Manganese seems like an equally bad idea.
Is there some paragon of health / fitness / performance / professional athlete who is using hair tests and megadosing with wildly superior results?
@joe2 professional athlete paragon of health? Bro I was ripped 100kg ball of muscles and I was far from healthy.
Most people want instant results and not to have average results after years of doing some balancing. It's 2025 bro..
Anyways I am not here to debate everyone who thinks hair testing is bullshit. I really don't care.
I can only say about the copper and manganese thing is that I agree it is very problematic. But it seems that you need to feed some in order to keep the machine going so you can process the excess..
For example copper and manganese rises sodium/potassium ratio. It means it wakes up adrenals and you can function better=detox better.
It is like 1 step back 2 steps forward.
If someone has high sodium/potassium ratio that person will do great on just zinc and doesn't need any copper.
Simply it is not so much about something is bad or good. It is about if you need it right now or not.
Also if you take decent amount of zinc you have to rise the copper as well. Unless you are doing stuff like people on HG7 protocol.
Which I am closely observing. But for for now it is not well developed for me to try. Like I can't afford taking some plant extracts hoping that it will work as it should. Like minerals are problematic, but plant extracts are crazy unpredictable I think..
Btw I am not taking copper from supplements. I think it is very easy to get plenty just from food. I just started eating more buckwheat and mushrooms and have 3mg a day easily..
But in case of molybdenum, manganese etc. it is like impossible to get more if you don't want to rise copper with it as well..
Simply once you have big imbalance you can't fix it with just food.
Food is great if you don't have imbalance and you want to keep it that way.
I would never recommend any supplements of isolated stuff for people who don't have issues and want to just stay healthy.
Bro?
There are healthy athletes. Their performance is commensurate. Imagine what Grant's performance would look like if he had been 35 when he started instead of 53?
There is a growing group.
Is Vitamin A Toxic? | Dr. Shawn Baker & Thor Torrens
Folk like this tend to consider all possibilities a bit more aggressively. Superior discernment is the competitive edge that determines all outcomes. Good luck without it.
Why you should think twice before taking Ivermectin and methylene blue!
Perhaps you should debate someone. Perhaps you should find someone who believes hair tests are b======== first. Appreciate you for avoiding putting words in my mouth.
Did I say I think 747's are b=-======?
Do I think you or anyone we know is going to land one in a storm with zero visibility and zero previous experience flying? What you are talking about doing through hair tests is the equivalent of rebuilding a 747 midflight and then landing it in that above scenario. Good luck. I started trying that 30 years ago when I first ran across Abram Hoffer and Orthomolecular Nutrition. Knowingly or not that is who you are following and imitating. Again. Good luck with that.
You will have upsides to these tactics. The downsides are blind for the most part. They are as big as any pharma risks. The house always wins in these games and we are not the house.
Noteworthy how the only guy with the best results so far in all the low vA cultures is the guy who stood outside that pharma / supplement casino and showed us by his example how dumb it is to going inside. The best bet is to take that dollar out of your pocket, fold it and call it doubled and put it back in you pocket.
I might guess that Grant had some imbalanced nutrients 11 years ago. Did he repair that without supplements?
What you advocate with copper and manganese and others is akin to eating vA to detox vA. Sure, poison on the way in is poison on the way out. It might hurt on the way out without enough help for the colon and other excretory systems. Charcoal comes to mind first. Also it seems too obvious that the liver is either detoxing aka kicking toxic bile out into the liver or intoxing aka pulling toxins in to keep them out of the serum and tissue. The liver can not do both at the same time. Intox or detox not both.
That said if symptoms are happening during detox, sure, taking vA or any other toxin in (copper, manganese, alcohol, caffeine, whatever) during detox symptoms will abate the symptoms. For awhile at least. And as long as the liver has more room to sequester more toxins. Sooner or later that overflow valve will trip and all those toxins and their symptoms will come out and taking more will not stop them.
On top of all that, the liver is dealing with all the various toxins being taken in and hopefully excreted. When I am getting out vA from my liver and I drink a beer, suddenly I am not getting out vA while my liver gets busy dealing with the beer. Once I stop taking in beer, the liver will then return to detoxing and sending out the aldehydes from the retinoids and the alcohols. At least as long as no other toxins are being taken in again.
So sure, we know of people on low vA diets for 7 years (Matt Stone much?) with really bad results. But this is a guy who eats 3,000 oreos a year and a half gallon of soda / juice / sugar water/ energy drinks a day. Worth noting that Matt said last month that he was moderate low vA diet these last 7 years and that these last 7 months he is very low vA. He said he had to go lower vA to keep his asthma and dog dander allergies at bay.
Take from this all what you will. Appreciate your williingness to debate in good faith and put no words in my mouth.
@joe2 You want compare my case with Grant?
Grant took steroids? Grant took accutane? Grant had mercury toxicity from shit loads of amalgams? Grant was hypothyroid since he was a kid? Grant has Kallmann syndrome?
Should I continue?
Btw I fixed my vit A toxicity for the most part. I am on low vit A diet for 8 years.
This is about different topic that you obviously don't understand at all. So I really don't know what are you trying to do here..
But if you want to debate/argue to have a fun you need to find someone else... Thx