Quote from Deleted user on January 31, 2024, 10:04 pm

Quote from Jiří on January 27, 2024, 7:02 am

@alexm there is crazy amount of positive reviews about TUDCA as well. You really think that if something would just cause liver damage it would be so popular for so long and used as liver support supplement? Especially considering its high price? Anyway I was using TUDCA before but I wasn't sure about the quality of the product. So when I saw in the shop where I wanted order something else the most popular brand that should be one of the best on the market I said fuck it. I will try it again.. So far after 2 days of taking 500mg a day nothing special is happening. Will see after couple of weeks.. I have two bottles - 120 caps 250mg each so I can take it 2 months... I take 10-15g of sunflower lecithin as well and that helps me poop for sure..  

Also interested to see how this pans out.  As to the logic of it probably being good because of the crazy amount of positive reviews, I am guessing you did not come to the blog from the nose to tail carnivore community.  Have you not been involved nor even looked at the Weston A Price Foundation?  Did you ever take cod liver oil?  How many crazy positive reviews are we still seeing for cod liver oil?  

Quote from Deleted user on January 31, 2024, 10:11 pm

Quote from Jiří on January 28, 2024, 2:22 am

@alexm  I wonder if the benefits of nicotinic acid on lipid panel is from that flush or it is not related? I am asking because if I will take 25-50mg with a meal which doesn't result in any flush will it have the same benefits? 

The flush apparently does not indicate the therapeutic level.  The main reason to desire a flush is to confirm that it is indeed nicotinic acid that was taken and not one of the many substitutes pharma/supplement industry foists on us.  The flush depends on previous dosage levels.  Flush usually decreases every day with same dose until zero flush.  It returns after a break from NA and a return dose.  I barely flush at a much higher dose than I did at my initial 25mg dose.  

The timing of the dose as well as accompanying intake change strength of flush.  Carbs or an empty stomach increase and lengthen it.  Meat and a full meal soften it.  

Quote from Deleted user on January 31, 2024, 10:17 pm

Quote from Arios on January 30, 2024, 4:26 am

I just recently noticed that niacin is a potent copper antagonist and increase both zinc and chromium absorption, chromium is not useful for the human body  and potentialy toxic in all form , red meat and chicken meat is rich in chromium,zinc and niacin which makes me question the usefulness of a niacin supplementation implementation in a G.S style of diet.

 

"I wonder if the benefits of nicotinic acid on lipid panel is from that flush or it is not related? I am asking because if I will take 25-50mg with a meal which doesn't result in any flush will it have the same benefits? "

If you do not flush with 50 mg this mean that either your Niacin supplement is not 100 % pur nicotinic acid or you simply drink too much water, you can also add acid like ascorbic acid to increase the flush effect . And to answer your question the lipid lowering effect is in my opnion not related to the flush but rather the increase of fat/energy conversion.

Got a link on the chromium issue?  First I heard of that.  Have yet to find convincing evidence that any kind of chromium is a nutrient.

 

Quote from Deleted user on January 31, 2024, 10:29 pm

Quote from Jiří on January 31, 2024, 2:17 pm

@joe Interesting comment under youtube video about how to increase testosterone

"Useful info. An update on Zinc - Zinc should be balanced with Copper, even better is to take a balanced mineral formula. Zinc taken on a regular or long term basis can cause a low Copper situation Copper situation which can lead to Iron overload or Disregulation. I suffered with low Copper after 2 years of regular Zinc supplementation and had to be treated in hospital ..the symptoms i had were multiple - anemia, low body temperature, bone pain , low white blood cell count, irregular heartbeat, loss of pigment from the skin, and thyroid problems..I also had grey hair and aged wrinking of my skin due to Iron Overload which spread to my internal orgnans..hospital tests showed almost zero Copper and excess Iron build up in internal organs..after stopping Zinc and taking 2 mg Copper daily all symptoms were gone and after several months I had restored health...a reciprocal relationship between iron and copper has been established in some tissues. For example,  iron accumulates during copper deficiency...Zinc bisglyconate is advised as it has a high absorption rate, I find that Magnesium Glycinate is an excellent supplement . A quality Pycnogenol and or Ginkgo Biloba is useful too .."

and on the question how much he was taking

"just a couple years ,around 5 days a week or more I would take anywhere from 15 mg and some days 45 mg"

THere you have it. The guy was taking basically like 30mg a day on average which is considered very safe dose and even Smith is saying that this dose which is the same dose as in his supplement can be taken without testing. If someone is eating red meat daily + taking even small dose like 10-15mg of zinc let a lone if the person takes molybdenum as well. Which is maybe even stronger copper antagonists than zinc. This person can run into serious issues with low copper. I think we will see a lot of cases like that from group of people who just blindly follow Smith and his advice.. 

Goes to my request to get on LYL livestream and superchat question to Garrett asking how long he and clients have been depleting copper with supplements and diet.

Am not in habit of dismissing anecdotal evidence.  From conversations on the network, I am more than a little confident there is a long list of people going much harder and longer on copper antagonist efforts doing well and still improving as Grant and Garrett are.  Hard to imagine a high vA diet that is not also high copper.  

Also hard to buy standard medical definitions of low copper levels causing deficiency symptoms given the standard medical take on vA.  Standard medical theory has it that Grant went blind 8 years ago and died 7 years ago.  

Quote from Alex on February 1, 2024, 5:06 am

@joe Dude all you do you is repeat Garret's rhetoric and act like it's 100% fact it's a bit embarrassing if you ask me. Copper is not an essential nutrient? Well clearly you don't know anything about biochemistry.

1. Enzyme Activation:

   • Copper serves as a cofactor for numerous enzymes, including cytochrome c oxidase, superoxide dismutase, and ceruloplasmin.
   • Cytochrome c oxidase, found in the mitochondria, is crucial for the final step of the electron transport chain, facilitating the production of ATP, the cell's energy currency.
   • Superoxide dismutase is an antioxidant enzyme that helps neutralize harmful free radicals by converting superoxide radicals into less damaging forms.
   • Ceruloplasmin is involved in the transport of copper in the blood and also has ferroxidase activity, contributing to iron metabolism.

2. Iron Metabolism:

   • Copper plays a role in the absorption of dietary iron in the small intestine by assisting in the conversion of Fe3+ (ferric iron) to Fe2+ (ferrous iron), which is more easily absorbed.
   • Once absorbed, copper is involved in the transport of iron in the blood by binding to transferrin, a protein that carries iron to various tissues.
   • Copper is essential for the incorporation of iron into hemoglobin, the oxygen-carrying component of red blood cells.

3. Connective Tissue Formation:

   • Copper is a cofactor for the enzyme lysyl oxidase, which is responsible for cross-linking collagen and elastin fibers in connective tissues.
   • Cross-linking enhances the strength and stability of collagen, contributing to the integrity and elasticity of tissues such as skin, tendons, and blood vessels.

4. Neurotransmitter Synthesis:

   • Copper is involved in the conversion of dopamine to norepinephrine, a process catalyzed by the enzyme dopamine beta-hydroxylase.
   • Norepinephrine is a neurotransmitter that plays a role in the central and peripheral nervous systems, contributing to functions like mood regulation and the "fight or flight" response.

5. Antioxidant Defense:

   • Copper-containing enzymes, such as copper-zinc superoxide dismutase (CuZn-SOD), play a vital role in the antioxidant defense system.
   • CuZn-SOD converts the superoxide radical (a reactive oxygen species) into oxygen and hydrogen peroxide, helping to prevent oxidative damage to cells and tissues.

Quote from lil chick on February 1, 2024, 7:26 am

Quote from Joe on January 31, 2024, 9:59 pm

Quote from lil chick on January 26, 2024, 3:25 pm

 

...call it the Swift Syndrome. 

urban dictionary:   "The Taylor Swift Syndrome is when a male or female cannot seem to hold on to a man/woman.   It seems that everyone there breaks up with them. "

Quote from Deleted user on February 1, 2024, 10:31 am

Quote from Jessica2 on February 1, 2024, 5:14 am

@Joe Garrett himself has said that if you try to eat low VA AND copper, you will severely limit your diet and there isn't much left.

As to copper being at cancer sites: what evidence is there it is causal? It could be the "blame the fireman or policeman for being at the crime scene" scenario.

Also, black beans (which Grant does eat) and oats are pretty good sources of copper, as well as navy and garbanzo beans. All low VA approved foods too.

(Edit: I also think choline being in the liver as evidence it "keeps the poison stored in the liver" is another blame the fireman scenario. Choline is hepatoprotective to bile duct canniculi and it is essential to bile formation. To say it "shoves poison into the liver" is a gross vilification and misrepresentation of what this important nutrient and phospholipid structure does.)

Are you telling me that Grant's (and my) "prison diet" is not limited?

Got a possible mechanism why copper and retinoids are so high in cancers and in tumors more plausible than that the system is overloaded and struggling to find places to stuff the toxins in safer less damaging places?  How exactly would copper be considered a fireman in that scenario?  What fires is copper putting out?

Um looking to get adequate copper from oats and beans, even for copper mongering folk seems a reach.  These are not copper rich foods. 

Choline increases conversion and storage of carotinoids and retinoids as I remember.  Are you advocating eating eggs here?

 

Quote from Deleted user on February 1, 2024, 10:39 am

Quote from AlexM on February 1, 2024, 5:06 am

@joe Dude all you do you is repeat Garret's rhetoric and act like it's 100% fact it's a bit embarrassing if you ask me. Copper is not an essential nutrient? Well clearly you don't know anything about biochemistry.

1. Enzyme Activation:

   • Copper serves as a cofactor for numerous enzymes, including cytochrome c oxidase, superoxide dismutase, and ceruloplasmin.
   • Cytochrome c oxidase, found in the mitochondria, is crucial for the final step of the electron transport chain, facilitating the production of ATP, the cell's energy currency.
   • Superoxide dismutase is an antioxidant enzyme that helps neutralize harmful free radicals by converting superoxide radicals into less damaging forms.
   • Ceruloplasmin is involved in the transport of copper in the blood and also has ferroxidase activity, contributing to iron metabolism.

2. Iron Metabolism:

   • Copper plays a role in the absorption of dietary iron in the small intestine by assisting in the conversion of Fe3+ (ferric iron) to Fe2+ (ferrous iron), which is more easily absorbed.
   • Once absorbed, copper is involved in the transport of iron in the blood by binding to transferrin, a protein that carries iron to various tissues.
   • Copper is essential for the incorporation of iron into hemoglobin, the oxygen-carrying component of red blood cells.

3. Connective Tissue Formation:

   • Copper is a cofactor for the enzyme lysyl oxidase, which is responsible for cross-linking collagen and elastin fibers in connective tissues.
   • Cross-linking enhances the strength and stability of collagen, contributing to the integrity and elasticity of tissues such as skin, tendons, and blood vessels.

4. Neurotransmitter Synthesis:

   • Copper is involved in the conversion of dopamine to norepinephrine, a process catalyzed by the enzyme dopamine beta-hydroxylase.
   • Norepinephrine is a neurotransmitter that plays a role in the central and peripheral nervous systems, contributing to functions like mood regulation and the "fight or flight" response.

5. Antioxidant Defense:

   • Copper-containing enzymes, such as copper-zinc superoxide dismutase (CuZn-SOD), play a vital role in the antioxidant defense system.
   • CuZn-SOD converts the superoxide radical (a reactive oxygen species) into oxygen and hydrogen peroxide, helping to prevent oxidative damage to cells and tissues.

Nice characterization aka ad hominem.  So agreement with anything Garrett Smith says on this blog is de facto a mistake.  You might be right about everything stated here.  While we are at it on a blog site specifically written and maintained to question fraudulent decades old dogma, let's site and completely believe with out question the dogma on other paradigms.  Like hmm let's say vitamin A?

https://medium.com/@danielaslam/role-of-vitamin-a-in-growth-and-development-58099264dac2

Role of Vitamin A in Growth and Development | Medium

If you choose to believe the dogma and accept it outright on vitamin A more power to you.  I might be wrong about that one too.  What I am 99.999999% certain about is that it is insultingly ironic that you would push that dogma on a cite devoted to questioning that dogma and condescendingly ad hominem attack anyone who does it.  

Your purpose is clarified by your goals.  If your goals are the opposite of what you are achieving then perhaps you are lying to yourself and others what your goals are.

Quote from Deleted user on February 1, 2024, 11:34 am

Quote from Jessica2 on February 1, 2024, 10:52 am

@joe because you personally don't understand why copper would be at cancer sites means we should all believe and accept Garrett's opinion on it?

I've looked into GS's opinions on choline and he's, in my opinion, dead wrong about it. I have a few threads detailing why. If you want to look through them and have a discussion about it feel free, if you want to repeat his talking points without reaching your own conclusions looking at data yourself, please sit down I'm not interested.

How dismissive.  One of the least persuasive arguments heard.  You have a right to your opinions as do I.  Regardless of who else holds those opinions.  Divert burden of proof on all paradigms all you want.  The irony is not lost that all the appeals to authority and condescending insistence on dogma is occurring on a blogsite dedicated to questioning fraudulent science dogma going back decades.  I will continue to look at data, consider possibilities and avoid reaching any conclusions that require such rhetorical gymnastics and commitment to defend.  We are all knuckleheads including your favorite antihero Garrett Smith.  We are all muddling through as best we can, testing ideas on ourselves and comparing notes.  If you are so disinterested in my comments feel free to stop responding and keep eating those eggs.  Thank you.