I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Story / Progress - Donald
Quote from Mat on June 11, 2023, 12:41 amI keep going with the flush as well, tho I seem to benefit less than you. I do have darker color stool after flushes as well, but temporary too.
I think that's a good sign and the most important sign that it's doing good.
Not much regarding the pso yet.
Me neither honestly. It has its ups and downs. It's so hard to gauge.
I'm trying a new supplement form, which is "beet flow" who has very very good reviews. I've talk with multiple people that have tried many things to get that bile flow moving (Ox bile, TUDCA, Taurine, GB formula, strong bitters etc..) and they were all saying that it was the best supps they tried.
Anecdotally: 4 years ago when I did keto, I also had a personal vegetable powder mix that contained quite a large amount of beet root. This might've been crucial into me being free of psoriasis back then as well. I am a bit worried about oxalates though, why I haven't really taken up beet juice, boiled beets or any of that lately. But I did a lot of stuff back then, including Swedish herbal bitters from Maria Treben.. so who knows what it really was.
Do you know if beet flow is low oxalate? If it isn't it might be a pick your poison moment... sludgy bile or higher oxalates.
I think that where ox bile/UDCA would "give more bile" while you're using it, it does nothing to improve the "sticky bile pool" (maybe UDCA does a bit) and the stuck liver ducts. Liver flush should help over time but the constant tenderness that I have under the right rib cage make me think that maybe I need to find more help regarding that.
I also have tenderness / feeling of pressure there. It sometimes goes away with a liver flush for a week or two, sometimes a month or two. When I do a flush and the tenderness is gone after it, I always had a big stone coming out. This is also why I started the chanca piedra, to break them up a bit.
I have started yesterday very slowly and it's too early yet but I think that it improves (temporary) this chronic tenderness that I've been feeling for a couple of years now, since I tried keto in the past (which did clear my pso a lot too but I had to stop for the same reason as you - low electrolytes despite supps, no energy, huge cramps etc... after some time on it. This, and the pressure that appeared had me worried)
I really hope it helps you. Do keep us updated on the forum! Either here or at your own thread.
Beet flow doesnt seem to be like any beet supps that I have tried. It's made with 100% beet GREENS (not the beet itself). It's made from empirical labs and is a bit expensive but who cares lol
If it helps it's more than worth the price, I'll look into getting some as well if it helps you.
My diet is basically on the high fat/protein again since carbs shoot my blood sugar very high (tho it comes back very quicky - within 30min) but I noticed that carb worsen my pso. So I'm around 150g or so from low vA fruits. I'm eating 4-5eggs per day as well as a little butter. Other than than, low vA as usual with meat, fish and vegetables.
I've been doing the flush every 2 weeks but I think I will try every 3 weeks now. What's your LF frequency ?
I feel like I'd do well on your diet, carbs definitely worsen it for me as well.
I try to keep the flushing at 4 week intervals because that's what Andreas Moritz suggests as being perfect, and most of what he says with the flushes turned out to be true for me. He says 4 weeks interval is perfect but not to flush more often than every 3 weeks. I sometimes do it at 2 to 2 1/2 weeks though, when I feel a stone is stuck again (read: a feeling of pressure on the right side just below the ribs). I feel no bile-flow at all is worse than an extra flush. I started 1st of January this year and I did about 8 flushes in the last half year.
Honestly feels like we're reading tea-leaves. I hope this is the right approach.
@donald Interesting about the beet and bitters you were using while doing keto. You might want to try the beet flow for sure, as it's the only supps I found from beet green, all other are from beet roots. If you choose to try it, let me know ! But they have very good reviews.
I know about the oxalates, but honestly it's a slow poison (it builds up over years) and I'd rather have a bit for a couple of months and improved the bile consistency VS do nothing. I feel that for now, whatever can help the bile flow is worth a shot ! I'm curious to see the next LF I will do while I'm using the beet flow. I know Moritz recommanded a tincture of gold coin grass for a couple of weeks to thin the bile before doing the flushes. I've tried but wasnt much convinced. Let's see if the beet flow does a better job !
Regarding the diet, high insulin level does makes the bile "stickier" and is a risk factor ++ for Cholecystectomy. There is also a very powerful association between psoriasis and TD2. This might be why lower carb helps somehow, and why carbs worsen it overall (in addition to increase mTOR, IGF-1 etc.. which could raise inflammation if chronically elevated after meals)
Other than that we have a VERY similar case ! We're definitively reading tea-leaves - but what else can we do?
Let's keep in touch for sure !
Quote from Hermes on June 12, 2023, 4:24 amWhat fats do you use for the liver flushes, olive oil? I have seen someone on this forum recommend tallow because it has less carotenoids and retinol. I've recently started coffee enemas, it's a bit early to tell what they do for me, but one thing is for sure, they calm me down, put my body in a parasympathetic state. It seems that liver flushes might do something similar. Anyway, would love to hear your thoughts on what fats might be best for liver flushes.
I just use olive oil. I assume you don't really take any of it in anyway because you're having diarrhea. Besides that I also use a bit of olive oil on my food. Average maybe 1 teaspoon daily? Some days it's nothing, some days it's 1 tablespoon. I definitely should buy more tallow and use that instead on my food. My problem is it's rock solid in the refrigerator and not easily portioned. Maybe I'll just try to cut it up into cubes.
With the liver flushes I definitely get a sense of calm too. Less easily inflammable emotions, I could have angry outbursts that would disappear as quickly as they came on. Am usually very chill, but some benign things just set me off. There's a reason there's so many sayings about the liver and bile when it comes to anger!
Quote from Hermes on June 12, 2023, 9:20 am
Yes I do think so. I laugh so much since I eat a lot of beans. They just make me laugh! They make me so chilled, maybe they work like the coffee enema? My sister that has started the beans too, tells me they chill her too. They work like a true medicine somehow. Really crazy stuff. But if they mop up toxic bile, no wonder you feel so chilled...
Quote from Inger on June 12, 2023, 12:16 pm
Yes I do think so. I laugh so much since I eat a lot of beans. They just make me laugh! They make me so chilled, maybe they work like the coffee enema? My sister that has started the beans too, tells me they chill her too. They work like a true medicine somehow. Really crazy stuff. But if they mop up toxic bile, no wonder you feel so chilled...
I have actually been slacking on my psyllium husk fiber a bit. I notice it a bit. Thank you for the reminder to keep that up again. Same when I was high fiber keto 4 years ago... I was way more social as a human.
I've often noticed that during highest pollen season I can be more scatterbrained and angrier. My husband says my brain swells.
My sister was very allergic every spring/summer and now as she eat beans every day she has no allergy at all!! She is sooo happy! She had to use antihistamines and hated it. Now she needs nothing, just beans 🙂
@christian I do use olive oil for the flush as well. I've tried avocado oil as the taste is better, but OO is cheaper so that's what I use !
Some flushes also bring some mood lifting / joy / calmness / clarity of mind effect for sure. I too I'm usually chill, but can have burst of anger for little things (exactly like @donald said)
@donald What type of diet or you eating ? What macro/kcal ? Not that it's the endgame, but I've been wondering.
Also, did you checked your blood sugar after meals with carbs (like 80g of carbs from fruits for instance) ? Either with a CGM or with a classic finger prick but at 10,15,30min and then 1h after a meal ? It can seems a bit overkill, but my particular blood sugar shot very high very quickly (10-15min after a meal) and fall down quickly also (within 30m) so if I would have not check 10-15m after a meal I never would have known (all lab marker are otherwise good)