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Quote from
tar on July 8, 2019, 6:32 am
Quote from
collden on July 8, 2019, 12:59 am
Quote from
tar on July 7, 2019, 1:31 pm
Quote from
jobo on July 5, 2019, 6:32 pm
Tar,
This is how I view 'detox' and what is going on in the body.
Read this link: http://chemocare.com/chemotherapy/drug-info/tretinoin.aspx
A lot of the side effects of this drug are similar to what people experience in detox. Note breathing problems is one of them. This tells me that 'detox' is the VA coming out and due to the way its metabolised, some (or all) of it is being converted to Retinoic Acid (ATRA) which is the same being on low dose chemo therapy or Accutane. You are essentially experiencing the side effects of being on Accutane or chemo.
The link above actually advises to stay away from the sun as it makes it worse. It made it worse for me and seems like you would be better off holding off on sun baking for a while.
Interesting.
I am getting hints that basically, once you take vitamin A in large doses, getting it out can be a hassle, maybe impossible except for long long long term restriction.
Check this out: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/3655980/?i=2&from=hypervitaminosis%20a%20sibling
Higher levels persist after 3 years...
Impossible is a little pessimistic, his liver VA levels were at least 100 times higher than normal so its not strange that he would be detoxing for a very long time, but eventually VA restriction will get your body VA stores down.
What I find interesting is there are so many cases where VA mobilisation and associated detox symptoms seem to increase several months after starting VA restriction. Like in this oft cited case study of a guy with VA-induced cirrhosis whose serum VA levels did not reach a peak until 10 weeks after stopping VA supplementation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7198069
Personally I experienced reduced bloating and easier breathing around 2-4 weeks of VA restriction, but now between week 5-7 I'm again having increased bloating, shortness of breath, and weird edemas in different places that come and go, its funny how VA detox proceeds.
Yeah impossible is a bit pessimistic. I see a lot of similarity in what I did and that kid though. I had a period where I was eating an ounce of liver every other day for a month or two. That is pretty interesting that you are having the exact same symptoms as me. Bloating and shortness of breath!
Quote from
collden on July 8, 2019, 12:59 am
Quote from
tar on July 7, 2019, 1:31 pm
Quote from
jobo on July 5, 2019, 6:32 pm
Tar,
This is how I view 'detox' and what is going on in the body.
Read this link: http://chemocare.com/chemotherapy/drug-info/tretinoin.aspx
A lot of the side effects of this drug are similar to what people experience in detox. Note breathing problems is one of them. This tells me that 'detox' is the VA coming out and due to the way its metabolised, some (or all) of it is being converted to Retinoic Acid (ATRA) which is the same being on low dose chemo therapy or Accutane. You are essentially experiencing the side effects of being on Accutane or chemo.
The link above actually advises to stay away from the sun as it makes it worse. It made it worse for me and seems like you would be better off holding off on sun baking for a while.
Interesting.
I am getting hints that basically, once you take vitamin A in large doses, getting it out can be a hassle, maybe impossible except for long long long term restriction.
Check this out: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/3655980/?i=2&from=hypervitaminosis%20a%20sibling
Higher levels persist after 3 years...
Impossible is a little pessimistic, his liver VA levels were at least 100 times higher than normal so its not strange that he would be detoxing for a very long time, but eventually VA restriction will get your body VA stores down.
What I find interesting is there are so many cases where VA mobilisation and associated detox symptoms seem to increase several months after starting VA restriction. Like in this oft cited case study of a guy with VA-induced cirrhosis whose serum VA levels did not reach a peak until 10 weeks after stopping VA supplementation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7198069
Personally I experienced reduced bloating and easier breathing around 2-4 weeks of VA restriction, but now between week 5-7 I'm again having increased bloating, shortness of breath, and weird edemas in different places that come and go, its funny how VA detox proceeds.
Yeah impossible is a bit pessimistic. I see a lot of similarity in what I did and that kid though. I had a period where I was eating an ounce of liver every other day for a month or two. That is pretty interesting that you are having the exact same symptoms as me. Bloating and shortness of breath!
Quote from
tar on July 8, 2019, 7:16 am
The other thought that is going through my head is that once you start going down this path, you really cannot turn back. I ate some granola with vitamin A yesterday, along with some Camu camu...this isn't the first time I have gotten a dose of A or carotenoids. Although rare it has happened here and there. It doesn't get better. In fact breathing seems to get a bit worse. This would definitely argue against all these detox symptoms being a need for vitamin A. For good or ill I am on this path and committed because it doesn't seem you can go back.
The other thought that is going through my head is that once you start going down this path, you really cannot turn back. I ate some granola with vitamin A yesterday, along with some Camu camu...this isn't the first time I have gotten a dose of A or carotenoids. Although rare it has happened here and there. It doesn't get better. In fact breathing seems to get a bit worse. This would definitely argue against all these detox symptoms being a need for vitamin A. For good or ill I am on this path and committed because it doesn't seem you can go back.
Quote from
lil chick on July 8, 2019, 7:42 am
The GOOD parts of me love the low A diet. It's the BAD parts of me that hate it.
I also wonder ... if you eat some wonderful, say, pastured egg yolk straight from the chicken... Is there a certain amount of time that that food is going to feel pretty good inside you? Maybe it has to sit there for a while and get old before it turns on you.
We may think we are suffering from what we ate yesterday, but maybe we are actually suffering from what we ate 3 or 20 years ago.
That is why I don't want to look in mirrors any more.
The GOOD parts of me love the low A diet. It's the BAD parts of me that hate it.
I also wonder ... if you eat some wonderful, say, pastured egg yolk straight from the chicken... Is there a certain amount of time that that food is going to feel pretty good inside you? Maybe it has to sit there for a while and get old before it turns on you.
We may think we are suffering from what we ate yesterday, but maybe we are actually suffering from what we ate 3 or 20 years ago.
That is why I don't want to look in mirrors any more.
Quote from
Ronnie on July 8, 2019, 11:07 am
The liver store toxins for a very long time
I found more success implementing certain liver detoxing techniques
camu camu is bitter and has vitamin c as well as the A but I highly doubt one tsp is going to put you over the top. What is more likely is you experienced a detox from the herb
The liver store toxins for a very long time
I found more success implementing certain liver detoxing techniques
camu camu is bitter and has vitamin c as well as the A but I highly doubt one tsp is going to put you over the top. What is more likely is you experienced a detox from the herb
Quote from
bludicka on July 8, 2019, 11:26 am
"We may think we are suffering from what we ate yesterday, but maybe we are actually suffering from what we ate 3 or 20 years ago."
This is a big truth....My 20 years vegetarian era certainly contributed to my copper toxicity...and weakened ability to detoxify heavy metals.
"We may think we are suffering from what we ate yesterday, but maybe we are actually suffering from what we ate 3 or 20 years ago."
This is a big truth....My 20 years vegetarian era certainly contributed to my copper toxicity...and weakened ability to detoxify heavy metals.
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Quote from
collden on July 8, 2019, 11:36 am
I think eventually one will be able to and ideally probably should return to eating a moderate-VA diet, because eating zero VA heavily restricts your food choices and makes other deficiencies more likely, maybe you can do well on it long-term but I doubt its better than a more varied diet that contains some VA.
I think if and when you find yourself strongly craving or even fantasizing repeatedly about some VA-containing food you have cut out, it may be time to re-introduce it. Unlikely to happen before you have both de-loaded on VA and healed the damage from chronic excess though.
For me I still do not miss VA-containing foods. I realized only now after avoiding them for some time that they all have this heavy quality to them that I'm aversive to but couldn't pinpoint previously. I now basically always enjoy my meals whereas previously eating was mostly a chore.
I think eventually one will be able to and ideally probably should return to eating a moderate-VA diet, because eating zero VA heavily restricts your food choices and makes other deficiencies more likely, maybe you can do well on it long-term but I doubt its better than a more varied diet that contains some VA.
I think if and when you find yourself strongly craving or even fantasizing repeatedly about some VA-containing food you have cut out, it may be time to re-introduce it. Unlikely to happen before you have both de-loaded on VA and healed the damage from chronic excess though.
For me I still do not miss VA-containing foods. I realized only now after avoiding them for some time that they all have this heavy quality to them that I'm aversive to but couldn't pinpoint previously. I now basically always enjoy my meals whereas previously eating was mostly a chore.
Quote from
lil chick on July 8, 2019, 11:54 am
The "heavy", descriptor does fit, Collden! Low A is a very light diet even when meats and their fats are present.
The "heavy", descriptor does fit, Collden! Low A is a very light diet even when meats and their fats are present.
Quote from
Josh on July 9, 2019, 11:20 am
@tar
When I lived in Arizona I had eczema problems. I think that dry air is a killer. Now you're in summer so you've got A/C adding to the dryness. If asthma could be likened to eczema on the lining of your lungs, and eczema is then maybe you need to try to increase the humidity of the air you breath. Do you use a swamp cooler at home? Maybe consider getting a humidifier (not the hot steam ones necessarily). Or maybe just standing over a pot of boiling water and inhaling the steam...?
Edit: I should add that my son first developed asthma when we lived in Arizona. Nowadays he often has a flare-up when the weather turns from humid to dryer seasons. Though there are many confounders. I wonder if one reason the saline-only nebulizer works is due to its humidifying effects. And then I wonder how much of a regular nebulizer's effect is due only to this.
@tar
When I lived in Arizona I had eczema problems. I think that dry air is a killer. Now you're in summer so you've got A/C adding to the dryness. If asthma could be likened to eczema on the lining of your lungs, and eczema is then maybe you need to try to increase the humidity of the air you breath. Do you use a swamp cooler at home? Maybe consider getting a humidifier (not the hot steam ones necessarily). Or maybe just standing over a pot of boiling water and inhaling the steam...?
Edit: I should add that my son first developed asthma when we lived in Arizona. Nowadays he often has a flare-up when the weather turns from humid to dryer seasons. Though there are many confounders. I wonder if one reason the saline-only nebulizer works is due to its humidifying effects. And then I wonder how much of a regular nebulizer's effect is due only to this.
Quote from
lil chick on July 9, 2019, 12:07 pm
I love humidity, probably because of what you are saying Josh! We sometimes spend a week at the shore, and when it's time to come home my nasal passages want to stay behind. No AC there, it's cooler and damper.
I had a loved-one with asthma growing up, though, and I can remember that any summer weather storms that went through would set him off and we'd be visiting the pediatrician for an Adrenalin shot. I sometimes feel a bit weird going from one type of atmosphere to another, like from A/C to not and back again.
I love humidity, probably because of what you are saying Josh! We sometimes spend a week at the shore, and when it's time to come home my nasal passages want to stay behind. No AC there, it's cooler and damper.
I had a loved-one with asthma growing up, though, and I can remember that any summer weather storms that went through would set him off and we'd be visiting the pediatrician for an Adrenalin shot. I sometimes feel a bit weird going from one type of atmosphere to another, like from A/C to not and back again.
Quote from
tar on July 9, 2019, 7:23 pm
Quote from
Josh on July 9, 2019, 11:20 am
@tar
When I lived in Arizona I had eczema problems. I think that dry air is a killer. Now you're in summer so you've got A/C adding to the dryness. If asthma could be likened to eczema on the lining of your lungs, and eczema is then maybe you need to try to increase the humidity of the air you breath. Do you use a swamp cooler at home? Maybe consider getting a humidifier (not the hot steam ones necessarily). Or maybe just standing over a pot of boiling water and inhaling the steam...?
Edit: I should add that my son first developed asthma when we lived in Arizona. Nowadays he often has a flare-up when the weather turns from humid to dryer seasons. Though there are many confounders. I wonder if one reason the saline-only nebulizer works is due to its humidifying effects. And then I wonder how much of a regular nebulizer's effect is due only to this.
Interesting theory, and starting tomorrow I am going to nebulize just saline and see if it matches the saline +Glutathione combo.
The only issue with the theory is it does not explain the bloating, or why staring at a computer screen makes it so much worse.
Quote from
Josh on July 9, 2019, 11:20 am
@tar
When I lived in Arizona I had eczema problems. I think that dry air is a killer. Now you're in summer so you've got A/C adding to the dryness. If asthma could be likened to eczema on the lining of your lungs, and eczema is then maybe you need to try to increase the humidity of the air you breath. Do you use a swamp cooler at home? Maybe consider getting a humidifier (not the hot steam ones necessarily). Or maybe just standing over a pot of boiling water and inhaling the steam...?
Edit: I should add that my son first developed asthma when we lived in Arizona. Nowadays he often has a flare-up when the weather turns from humid to dryer seasons. Though there are many confounders. I wonder if one reason the saline-only nebulizer works is due to its humidifying effects. And then I wonder how much of a regular nebulizer's effect is due only to this.
Interesting theory, and starting tomorrow I am going to nebulize just saline and see if it matches the saline +Glutathione combo.
The only issue with the theory is it does not explain the bloating, or why staring at a computer screen makes it so much worse.
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