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Quote from
tim on August 28, 2019, 9:12 pm
Quote from
MaryAnn on August 28, 2019, 9:01 am
Hi Tim,
Here is a web site explaining how DNA is translated into protein:
https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/translation-dna-to-mrna-to-protein-393/
Figure 2 shows the mRNA codons, each with 3 nucleotides, that code for the different amino acids in protein. There are no codons for the modified amino acids hydroxyproline and hydroxylysine because the hydroxyl group (OH) is added after translation. The paper that you mentioned is from the 1950's and uses techniques that leave a large margin of error. In fact that work was done before DNA to protein translation was even discovered.
Hi Mary,
I appreciate you explaining why I was wrong. It's something I've wondered about for a long time but didn't have enough biochemistry background to get to the bottom of it.
Quote from
MaryAnn on August 28, 2019, 9:01 am
Hi Tim,
Here is a web site explaining how DNA is translated into protein:
https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/translation-dna-to-mrna-to-protein-393/
Figure 2 shows the mRNA codons, each with 3 nucleotides, that code for the different amino acids in protein. There are no codons for the modified amino acids hydroxyproline and hydroxylysine because the hydroxyl group (OH) is added after translation. The paper that you mentioned is from the 1950's and uses techniques that leave a large margin of error. In fact that work was done before DNA to protein translation was even discovered.
Hi Mary,
I appreciate you explaining why I was wrong. It's something I've wondered about for a long time but didn't have enough biochemistry background to get to the bottom of it.
Quote from
tim on August 28, 2019, 9:29 pm
Everyone, I apologize for spreading misinformation about Vitamin C and hydroxyproline. I was wrong about hydroxyproline being a Vitamin C sparer.
It appears that meat may be a Vitamin C sparer due to the fact that it supplies carnitine directly which may (it's not conclusive) require Vitamin C when it is synthesized in the body.
Although I don't endorse a carnivore diet this is a good post on the subject:
http://www.empiri.ca/2019/01/not-collagen-but-carnitine.html
Everyone, I apologize for spreading misinformation about Vitamin C and hydroxyproline. I was wrong about hydroxyproline being a Vitamin C sparer.
It appears that meat may be a Vitamin C sparer due to the fact that it supplies carnitine directly which may (it's not conclusive) require Vitamin C when it is synthesized in the body.
Although I don't endorse a carnivore diet this is a good post on the subject:
http://www.empiri.ca/2019/01/not-collagen-but-carnitine.html
Quote from
Orion on August 27, 2019, 5:18 am
Quote from
John Fry on August 26, 2019, 6:01 pm
Hi Keero, I'm experiencing a troubling past symptom in the last couple of days after upping my intake of Vitamin C. When Tim mentioned the research that went into the determination of the RDA, after knee-jerking, I started looking around for more information. I found this 2016 review that gives me some concern, so I'm ending supplementation for awhile to see what happens. Seems like higher-doses stirred something up. I found the whole paper quite interesting, as it covered the pro's and con's in great detail. The latter section on the potential advantages of humans having lost the ability to synthesize Vitamin C is worth considing. All in all, it made me slow-down and appreciate Tim's perspective. I might not have found the paper if he hadn't planted a seed. Hope your symptoms clear in short order.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2743829/
What issues did high dose VC bring back? I have been keeping my ascorbate and ascorbic intake relatively low for months now, and will keep it this way. Thanks for the study link.
Peripheral neuropathy in the hands and forearms. Those had seriously cleared in the last year on very low-retinoid intake. That was sufficient to grab my attention. A little bit of heel-bone pain as well which had also cleared almost 100%. And some ache around the jaw area where I had a tooth removed a few months ago. All of those symptoms are slowly fading in the last few days.
Quote from
Orion on August 27, 2019, 5:18 am
Quote from
John Fry on August 26, 2019, 6:01 pm
Hi Keero, I'm experiencing a troubling past symptom in the last couple of days after upping my intake of Vitamin C. When Tim mentioned the research that went into the determination of the RDA, after knee-jerking, I started looking around for more information. I found this 2016 review that gives me some concern, so I'm ending supplementation for awhile to see what happens. Seems like higher-doses stirred something up. I found the whole paper quite interesting, as it covered the pro's and con's in great detail. The latter section on the potential advantages of humans having lost the ability to synthesize Vitamin C is worth considing. All in all, it made me slow-down and appreciate Tim's perspective. I might not have found the paper if he hadn't planted a seed. Hope your symptoms clear in short order.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2743829/
What issues did high dose VC bring back? I have been keeping my ascorbate and ascorbic intake relatively low for months now, and will keep it this way. Thanks for the study link.
Peripheral neuropathy in the hands and forearms. Those had seriously cleared in the last year on very low-retinoid intake. That was sufficient to grab my attention. A little bit of heel-bone pain as well which had also cleared almost 100%. And some ache around the jaw area where I had a tooth removed a few months ago. All of those symptoms are slowly fading in the last few days.
Quote from
Josh on September 1, 2019, 12:09 am
Quote from
MaryAnn on August 28, 2019, 9:26 am
Hi Empirebuilder,
I'm a 100% believer in Grant's theory! The science definitely supports the theory that vitamin A is in fact not a vitamin, but really just a plant toxin. There is a lot of bad science in the literature and it usually goes uncorrected. There is also a lot of science that is funded by companies with a vested interest in the outcome - also bad science.
I have been on a zero A diet since April 2018, 1.5 years, and I'm doing very well. All the mental and physical symptoms that I didn't even realize I had (brain fog, low energy, poor sleep, no dreams, weak bones, etc) disappeared within a month or 2. I thought it was just aging and unavoidable. The symptom that I researched and which lead me to grant's web site was a severe non-itchy face rash. I had just started eating lots of liver so that was the clue that made me think hypervitaminosis A. I still have a few scabby spots on my face, but it has improved 98% from the bumpy red lobster days. I still maintain zero vit A and take activated charcoal every morning before breakfast. I think the path to total recovery may take several years.
Hi @maryann, great to hear someone with your expertise chime in here. I'm sure you're busy, but when you have some time I'm curious what you think of Grant's recent post on Retinol Binding Proteins and also his hypothesis that casein "wraps" retinoic acid in dairy (esp. pasteurized dairy). Thanks!
Quote from
MaryAnn on August 28, 2019, 9:26 am
Hi Empirebuilder,
I'm a 100% believer in Grant's theory! The science definitely supports the theory that vitamin A is in fact not a vitamin, but really just a plant toxin. There is a lot of bad science in the literature and it usually goes uncorrected. There is also a lot of science that is funded by companies with a vested interest in the outcome - also bad science.
I have been on a zero A diet since April 2018, 1.5 years, and I'm doing very well. All the mental and physical symptoms that I didn't even realize I had (brain fog, low energy, poor sleep, no dreams, weak bones, etc) disappeared within a month or 2. I thought it was just aging and unavoidable. The symptom that I researched and which lead me to grant's web site was a severe non-itchy face rash. I had just started eating lots of liver so that was the clue that made me think hypervitaminosis A. I still have a few scabby spots on my face, but it has improved 98% from the bumpy red lobster days. I still maintain zero vit A and take activated charcoal every morning before breakfast. I think the path to total recovery may take several years.
Hi @maryann, great to hear someone with your expertise chime in here. I'm sure you're busy, but when you have some time I'm curious what you think of Grant's recent post on Retinol Binding Proteins and also his hypothesis that casein "wraps" retinoic acid in dairy (esp. pasteurized dairy). Thanks!
Quote from
Keero on September 2, 2019, 4:14 am
For my own record.
Recent outbreak of psoriasis on forehead. Small canker sore in mouth. Has healed quickly though.
For my own record.
Recent outbreak of psoriasis on forehead. Small canker sore in mouth. Has healed quickly though.
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Quote from
Keero on November 19, 2019, 12:10 pm
Stammer is back. Very frustrating. Anybody who has had this post Accutane or large dose vit a and know how to combat it?
Stammer is back. Very frustrating. Anybody who has had this post Accutane or large dose vit a and know how to combat it?
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Quote from
lil chick on November 19, 2019, 2:17 pm
I don't have much to say except try to do the things that will get rid of the VA so you can get back to where you were. And TIME on the low VA diet will probably work it out too.
So interesting.
I suppose that the "tongue-tied" condition that Sarabeth was mentioning is completely not the same as the "stammering" condition you mention?
There is something about the mid-line of the face though... that is where VA seems to go for me. It makes a tightness there. I do facial stretches all the time.
I have only felt "tongue tied" once, when I was in front of a large audience and I couldn't get even one word out! It was in the last 5 or so years. So frustrating and mystifying. I never had the issue before or since. My VA toxicity was already pretty bad back then.
I don't have much to say except try to do the things that will get rid of the VA so you can get back to where you were. And TIME on the low VA diet will probably work it out too.
So interesting.
I suppose that the "tongue-tied" condition that Sarabeth was mentioning is completely not the same as the "stammering" condition you mention?
There is something about the mid-line of the face though... that is where VA seems to go for me. It makes a tightness there. I do facial stretches all the time.
I have only felt "tongue tied" once, when I was in front of a large audience and I couldn't get even one word out! It was in the last 5 or so years. So frustrating and mystifying. I never had the issue before or since. My VA toxicity was already pretty bad back then.
Quote from
bludicka on November 20, 2019, 5:02 am
Quote from
Keero on November 19, 2019, 12:10 pm
Stammer is back. Very frustrating. Anybody who has had this post Accutane or large dose vit a and know how to combat it?
I have it - one of my brain symptoms of VA toxicity, it worsens during detox cycles but no idea how to combat it if I have still VA in the brain. A few months ago I have read about B1+Mg protocol, this protocol can reduce stuttering, I will try this protocol later (after two years of low VA diet if stammer still present). I take b complex+B1 and mg but not such a high dose of thiamine - and now I don’t want to experiment with that.
http://stuttersense.blogspot.com/2013/08/faq-about-thiamine-vitamin-b1-and.html
Quote from
Keero on November 19, 2019, 12:10 pm
Stammer is back. Very frustrating. Anybody who has had this post Accutane or large dose vit a and know how to combat it?
I have it - one of my brain symptoms of VA toxicity, it worsens during detox cycles but no idea how to combat it if I have still VA in the brain. A few months ago I have read about B1+Mg protocol, this protocol can reduce stuttering, I will try this protocol later (after two years of low VA diet if stammer still present). I take b complex+B1 and mg but not such a high dose of thiamine - and now I don’t want to experiment with that.
http://stuttersense.blogspot.com/2013/08/faq-about-thiamine-vitamin-b1-and.html
Quote from
Keero on November 20, 2019, 5:39 am
thanks @bludicka, appreciate your suggestions. Will look into this.
thanks @bludicka, appreciate your suggestions. Will look into this.
Quote from
bludicka on November 20, 2019, 7:27 am
@kiero
Thiamin protocol for stuttering:
Two supplements help me a little with my brain function now - methylfolate (+potassium for activation) and vitamin D. And paradoxically, some symptoms of VA toxicity are worse after eight months than at the beginning, especially anxiety, depressions and stuttering on some days- as if the brain was starting to heal and detoxify more intensively now.
@kiero
Thiamin protocol for stuttering:
Two supplements help me a little with my brain function now - methylfolate (+potassium for activation) and vitamin D. And paradoxically, some symptoms of VA toxicity are worse after eight months than at the beginning, especially anxiety, depressions and stuttering on some days- as if the brain was starting to heal and detoxify more intensively now.
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