I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Tim's Log
Hi @tim-2!
I would just like to thank you for all of your writing here!
I really appreciate your moderate thoughts on nutrition here. Moderation is highly needed in a world that is infused with lots of extremism.
A reason as to why your opinion on moderation might be difficult for some to comprehend at a glance might be that it sounds too much like the general food advice given by dietists and government health agencies — eat everything with moderation. Your moderate view might firstly seem quite similar to these common official moderation advices that seems to have failed to help populations, though how many modern people have really been trying to follow any moderate nutrition advice in the first place?
Moderation is a virtue and it seems difficult to get there. This article "Moderation may be the most challenging and rewarding virtue" by Aurelian Craiutuis, professor of political science and adjunct professor of American studies at Indiana University in Bloomington, I think reminds us that following any road of moderation has always been difficult:
https://aeon.co/ideas/moderation-may-be-the-most-challenging-and-rewarding-virtue
"For one thing, they [the ancients] didn’t share our present skepticism toward moderation. On the contrary, they praised it and thought that the alleged ‘barbarians’ were also incapable of moderation, that is, of following a rational middle course. If classical authors agreed on the importance of moderation, they also insisted that it is not an easy virtue. Tacitus called it, in fact, ‘the most difficult lesson of wisdom’, while Horace linked moderation to the golden mean and balance, all good things in his view, but difficult to achieve in practice.
[...]
In the Nicomachean Ethics, he defined virtue as a mean between extremes, and insisted that ‘a master of any art avoids excess and defect’, always seeking ‘the intermediate’ that preserves order and freedom in society. Yet since the mean is never one-dimensional, we must always assess and evaluate the context of our choices in order to decide on the appropriate course of action at the ‘right’ time, in the ‘right’ place, and with regard to the ‘right’ people. To achieve all this, one needs both prudence and moderation, yet there is no algorithm for them; moderation can be learned and gained only through experience and practice. It is a challenging virtue, not suitable to the young who lack knowledge and patience."
PS. I also want to re-post one of the best comments I have seen by you on this forum:
https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/calcium/?part=3
Quote from tim on June 20, 2020, 12:48 amThis is not addressed to anyone in particular.
If we are trying to further our understanding of this topic everybody needs to follow a code when communicating with one another. If somebody explains what they think about something and why then any constructive responses from people that disagree need to clearly explain why they think the idea is incorrect in a logical way. Simply stating that ones disagrees is pointless, nobody cares. Attacking the person (ad hominem), reasoning that does not follow a logical progression (non sequitur) or a response that implies that someone said something they didn't (strawman) is not acceptable. As soon as someone uses a logical fallacy any momentum towards the truth tends to disappear.
Unfortunately very few people are familiar with logical fallacies and sound argument. It isn't taught in schools, we have to take the time to educate ourselves.
To anyone that thinks that I have a superiority complex or I think I'm smarter than I am: That's your problem, not mine. If logical fallacies are avoided in a discussion then individual differences in intelligence and knowledge don't disrupt or create any problem. Anyone that doesn't have a valid response avoids writing one.
Quite a few people here are not very well and want further info or just want to send messages of support between each other. That must be respected and nobody should be dismissed or ridiculed for that. Likewise some are here to further our understanding of this subject and to further refine what we are doing through discussion, this discussion must be respected too, responses that do not involve sound reasoning are not acceptable.
Hi @david,
Thank you.
A reason as to why your opinion on moderation might be difficult for some to comprehend at a glance might be that it sounds too much like the general food advice given by dietists and government health agencies — eat everything with moderation.
That's a good point. When the health advice is far from perfect and is telling us that aspects of a traditional moderate diet are problematic what meaning does the term "balanced diet" associated with the advice have?
In the Nicomachean Ethics, he defined virtue as a mean between extremes, and insisted that ‘a master of any art avoids excess and defect’, always seeking ‘the intermediate’ that preserves order and freedom in society. Yet since the mean is never one-dimensional, we must always assess and evaluate the context of our choices in order to decide on the appropriate course of action at the ‘right’ time, in the ‘right’ place, and with regard to the ‘right’ people. To achieve all this, one needs both prudence and moderation, yet there is no algorithm for them; moderation can be learned and gained only through experience and practice. It is a challenging virtue, not suitable to the young who lack knowledge and patience."
Yes, because we are always ignorant of at least some relevant data moderation can often help us navigate more skillfully through life.
A traditional moderate balanced diet is what has been selected for by many generations over time for survival and replication. Nutritional science is multi faceted, complex and requires much risk benefit analysis to help define an optimal diet. It is best to analyse a traditional moderate balanced diet to understand its components and why it has been selected for. Once a deep understanding of its components has been reached then we can tweak aspects to improve upon it.
I think the difficulty in defining and achieving "moderation" is not only intellectual. The co-opting of food procurement, production, and preparation by corporations and other entities large and small mean that even if one grew up eating a Cuisine, it would most likely be adulterated and could quite possibly not even resemble "food" in the sense that our great grandparents would recognize the ingredients anymore. And most of us grew up at least a generation removed from a "cuisine" anyway, and so it's even harder. I strongly feel that commercially processed foods take away our agency and greatly reduce our chances of healing. Cooking is not a valued skill in our societies, in general, and yet it is one of the only tools we actually have left: choosing and preparing the foods we put in our mouths. If you had to make your own potato chips, you sure as heck wouldn't be eating them very often! 🙂 (And other truisms from the Family Chef...who Really Really Wants Her Kids To Know How To Cook...)
What I'm currently supplementing with:
1x V energy drink per day which contains 500mg taurine and 63mg glucuronolactone.
1x capsule Thorne Basic B Complex taken once every two days. I like this formulation because it's not high in B6 and it contains no folic acid only folate.
4.8 grams of lecithin per day (contains 144mg choline).
3x 250mg vitamin C tablets total per day. 1x tablet upon waking and 1x before sleeping.
Now that you have been on the Vitamin A Detox Diet for more than five years (or less?), do you have any new health improvements to report? Hair growth? More energy? Improved concentration? Better memory retention? Okay, I'm getting ahead of myself here. Everything is welcome. 🙂
Unfortunately due to the hostility I've experienced this year on this forum I no longer even feel comfortable reporting on my personal improvements.
Overall though I feel that my health keeps improving each year that goes by eating low vA.
You protect yourself. I respect that.
I wish this was a safe place for everyone to express themselves freely without fear. At the same time, censorship is also repugnant to me, there's already too much of that in the world. So we can only hope that others catch up with our growth so that they too are aware of how their words affect others. A safe place is only possible by choice, not by force.
I wish this was a safe place for everyone to express themselves freely without fear. At the same time, censorship is also repugnant to me, there's already too much of that in the world.
Yep agreed censorship of ideas is a big problem. But forum moderation is essential to a healthy space. Full freedom of expression of ideas should be allowed but disrespect towards others shouldn't. Otherwise either the offender will just continue being toxic and feel righteous about it or endless shit posting between multiple people can start and then pollute the whole space.
So we can only hope that others catch up with our growth so that they too are aware of how their words affect others. A safe place is only possible by choice, not by force.
There will always be people that descend into ad hominems when their argument is invalidated. I don't see turning the other cheek as a sign of spiritual growth, I think it's unnatural to ignore disrespect. In an online chat room or in a public space trash talking an opponent can be a form of entertainment, battle rapping is a specialised form of that. But disrespect or consistent off topic nuisance posting in a forum where people have to read through it all looking for good information and where people are sharing deeply personal information? No, it's not acceptable or appropriate and absolutely needs to be moderated.
Fwiw I have always appreciated your input and I really hope you will continue to contribute to this forum, as well as update your log with your progress.
Edit: but I get it, your reasons is a big part of why I tend to stay out of it and just lurk.